Love in Vain - Early Draft

[VikingBlues]

Yup - don't panic - not jazzy this time.

Hmmph ... then again - maybe you should panic - I'm trying blues again. Well I've got Blues in my screen name so I guess I should.

An early draft I reckon - I need to go back to it to get it better and I need to work out a proper intro to it instead of just starting at the beginning of the 12bar sequence. Question is whether it works well enough to merit doing that?

This is based much more on the Peter Green Splinter Group version than the original Robert Johnson. BUT .... the rhythm is a bit shaky - no backing track to help me out y'see. The balance of the (9) tracks isn't quite right - my singing is a bit all over the place, and I'm not an adequate substitute for a group of pro backing singers either. Had a bit of noise problems with the microphone set up on the vocals too.

So pretty much single takes, with warts and all:-

http://www.box.net/shared/dafe0t4ac87vjfqhfbc9

All guitars are the Hagstrom. The bass is the Hofner cheapo Violin Bass.
...................................................................................................

EDIT : UPDATED TO DRAFT 1a - Per Post on thread Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:21 pm - Vocal levels & Rhythm Guitartweaked.

http://www.box.net/shared/4t7i0kxvgvcotlx3n653

[12bar]

It works much better than you'll think. In fact, a man and his guitar is all you need! Sounds very atmospheric, and the rhythm variations make it even more human. I'm not a friend of too much technical perfection (although your playing is flawless), that's why I love John Lee Hooker. He didn't care about forms, he just played, and that's what you did, too.

(As usual, I'm quite busy short before holidays, so I couldn't comment on everything, but I still read it all. And tuned my strat to open G to get better at slide.)

[losaavedra]

Similar to 12Bar's comments ... that's a good piece of work, well put together, and having a BT banging away behind it would detract rather than add to the overall effect. In the mix the nice bluesy vocal could be given a bit more prominence and I kinda wanted the humming part near the end to have a wee bit of simple harmony added ... but not too much else you'd shift it into the 'spiritual' genre!

As an aside (since you mention the Hofner) I do my 'bass' parts on things like this with the same guitar as the rest of it, but shoved through the 'fretless bass' setting on my BOSS BR900, which drops that part an octave, and makes the bass lines rather easier to finger.

Good work!

[2WheelsOfBlues]

Don't be so hard for youself, it's a good song.

Like allready sad what you need is a man and the guitar and it fits very good over there

[VikingBlues]

Thank you very much 12bar, losaavedra, 2WheelsOfBlues. I appreciate your taking a listen and also your encouragement. What you've all said helps to keep things in perspective. It's very silly of me to expect to try to do a cover based on a mix of Robert johnson and Peter Green and expect to get anywhere near those stratospheric levels!

It's only about my sixth attempt at any cover version in the last 12 to 18 months - I find it very difficult to get my head / fingers / thinking round the way other people do a song.

Sounds very atmospheric, and the rhythm variations make it even more human. I'm not a friend of too much technical perfection (although your playing is flawless), that's why I love John Lee Hooker. He didn't care about forms, he just played, and that's what you did, too.

John Lee Hooker manages to play with imperfections with such amazing cool and style. My favourite bluesman. I'm glad some atmosphere came through in my recording - I was hoping it would - there's something about this song that resonates on some level with me, though I don't understand quite why or what it is that resonates other than that PG magic perhaps.

In the mix the nice bluesy vocal could be given a bit more prominence and I kinda wanted the humming part near the end to have a wee bit of simple harmony added ... but not too much else you'd shift it into the 'spiritual' genre!

I mentioned the noise problem with the microphone - the volume on my vocal part was basically as high as I could get it on the recording without having great whoosing noises all over the place. It's a problem with the old house - I think the electrics are a bit suspect and there's a fair chance of more moise of an evening, which was the only time I had the chance of recording this. Maybe with Draft 2 I'll manage to get a better signal to the PC DAW. Draft 2 will maybe be a chance for some harmony, but whether I can get the vocal skill together enough is open to question.

As an aside (since you mention the Hofner) I do my 'bass' parts on things like this with the same guitar as the rest of it, but shoved through the 'fretless bass' setting on my BOSS BR900, which drops that part an octave, and makes the bass lines rather easier to finger.

I'd got into the habit of dropped octave bass too while I had a Jazz Bass copy which I found was too much of a stretch for my fingers. Since trading that in and gettingthe short scale Hofner, I've found fun in playing bass again - the shorter scale makes a huge difference. I also like the sound of the Hofner - it's pretty much semi-hollow and it has that semi-hollow sound I like so much.

[oneeyedslide]

Whoa! Where'd that come from? That's GREAT! Hey VB, you're really on to something here! This recording simply oozes blues!

I think you should forget any backing tracks. You've got everything you need right there. Like you said maybe work up an intro and tweak the vocals if you want, but it sounds great just as it is! I really wanna hear your next draft, but please resist the temptation to change it too much!


Though maybe a few slide licks from 12 Bar would thicken the atmosphere even more!

[MikeJackal]

We are both Greeny nuts so you can probably predict that I love this song, you really did it justice and it all sounded very well put together. Just a thought on the vocals, when I have recorded singing in the past I use Adode Audition to add some reverb and also to amplify the volume, that way you can keep your levels down so that you don't get any unwanted noise while having the desired vocal volume. Not sure if your software has a similar feature.

[VikingBlues]

Whoa! Where'd that come from? That's GREAT! Hey VB, you're really on to something here! This recording simply oozes blues!

I think you should forget any backing tracks. You've got everything you need right there. Like you said maybe work up an intro and tweak the vocals if you want, but it sounds great just as it is! I really wanna hear your next draft, but please resist the temptation to change it too much!

Though maybe a few slide licks from 12 Bar would thicken the atmosphere even more!

Many thanks for that. Hell - I'll need to watch I don't get a swollen head. If I do have another go, I'm not looking for major changes - just trying to have a few less flaws. The intro will need a lot of work I think. Good point about the slide - I did wonder before I did the recording about having some slide - but not having a permanently open tuned guitar it needs a deliberate effort to set it up, and it slipped my mind in the wrestling with the recording levels etc.

We are both Greeny nuts so you can probably predict that I love this song, you really did it justice and it all sounded very well put together. Just a thought on the vocals, when I have recorded singing in the past I use Adode Audition to add some reverb and also to amplify the volume, that way you can keep your levels down so that you don't get any unwanted noise while having the desired vocal volume. Not sure if your software has a similar feature.

Thanks - glad you like it. Good points about the vocal and the DAW there mike. I have (now I've clocked off work at the start of two weeks away from the job) had time tonight to mess around with some levels etc. I've managed to tweak the vocals up a bit in the mix though with headphones on I can hear more noise coming through the mix as well. I've also changed the balance of lead and backing vocal a bit, and tried to strengthen the solidity of the rhythm guitar work.

It's not hugely different but I think on balance it has helped a bit. So here is Draft 1a (Box.net again in case there's copyright issues for 12bar):-
http://www.box.net/shared/4t7i0kxvgvcotlx3n653

If there's a draft 2 it'll be pretty much starting from scratch again. There's already 10 tracks on this recording and the PC is starting to strain slightly with a few buffer errors. I have a feeling it would be quite easy to get obsessive about making recordings of this song.

.............................

Sincere thanks to everyone who have listened and commented over the last few days - you've helped make this week a good deal better than it should have been. I love the medicinal qualities of music making.

[oneeyedslide]

(As usual, I'm quite busy short before holidays, so I couldn't comment on everything, but I still read it all. And tuned my strat to open G to get better at slide.)

You might have a volunteer for the slide!

[Blindboy]

Been following this one with interest, just haven't had time to reply.
I gotta say... Great job on this VB. This is a fairly ambitious undertaking, and you have pulled it off well! All the different layers are not easy to coordinate, and the playing is top notch too... Very "VB" sounding.

[VikingBlues]

(As usual, I'm quite busy short before holidays, so I couldn't comment on everything, but I still read it all. And tuned my strat to open G to get better at slide.)

You might have a volunteer for the slide!

Now there's a thought - I missed seeing that message properly - I seriously think if I do a redraft I should also have a version with some deliberate space for some slide work from that particular someone if they wanted to add some pure blues to it. I know it would certainly improve the recording big-time.

Been following this one with interest, just haven't had time to reply.
I gotta say... Great job on this VB. This is a fairly ambitious undertaking, and you have pulled it off well! All the different layers are not easy to coordinate, and the playing is top notch too... Very "VB" sounding.

Many thanks Blindboy. I'm trying hard to get my blues up to a better level, and I'm being helped a lot by hearing performances from players here like yourself.

Yeah - trying to follow Robert Johnson and Peter Green - I'm not sure if it's ambitious or over-ambitious? I suppose we need to see if I can get it good enough in the future to make it the first of those two rather than the second. I'm pleased to hear you say it is "Very "VB" sounding" - I spent nearly 40 years with no guitar playing sound that was identifiably mine.

[12bar]

Now there's a thought - I missed seeing that message properly - I seriously think if I do a redraft I should also have a version with some deliberate space for some slide work from that particular someone if they wanted to add some pure blues to it. I know it would certainly improve the recording big-time.

I'm still working on THE tone, so I played over a very popular tune. The result - well, it would ruin your song...
I sure OneEyedSlide will do a much better job...

download/file.php?id=1119

[VikingBlues]

Now there's a thought - I missed seeing that message properly - I seriously think if I do a redraft I should also have a version with some deliberate space for some slide work from that particular someone if they wanted to add some pure blues to it. I know it would certainly improve the recording big-time.

I'm still working on THE tone, so I played over a very popular tune. The result - well, it would ruin your song...
I sure OneEyedSlide will do a much better job...

download/file.php?id=1119

Despite your worries it still cries out "Delta" to me. Certainly it's bluesy in a way that my slide work isn't. I find myself just playing the basic nortes of the chords, flinging in a few notes at random by sliding around a lot and stopping where it sounds OK, and sometimes remembering I'm supposed to slide to notes/chords I'm playing as well as varying their pitch as I play them.

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just do an open invitation, and anyone will be welcome. Watch this space ..... but don't hold your breath - might be a while!

[oneeyedslide]

It does cry out Delta. I still need to get my flatpick to think it's a thumb pick and start playing those bass lines. Let me practice up. Then there's Blindboy over on another thread slidin' up a storm! He's got a whole bucketfull of tasty slide licks!

But when it comes down to it, maybe leaving it really simple with just you and your guitar out on the front porch will be what clicks.

I'll play around with it and see what happens.

[VikingBlues]

This is as far as I can take this draft I think. Rhythm a bit tidier + wee bit of slide. I'm in danger of over-complicating it with too many parts and in danger of too much straining of computer resources on the recording.

http://www.box.net/shared/ga28jozh63mrji8bjp4u

Next draft I think will need to start from scratch and that's a daunting prospect - maybe in a month or two.

[oneeyedslide]

Sounds like you beat me to it VB! First time I've heard you play slide and I like it! See what you think of this version:

download/file.php?id=1127

I tryed to just back-fill abit. Hope you get a kick out of it!

[Golfxzq]

It seem that there are a lot of Peter Green fans in here. Those are two really great covers of a beautiful song. Great job you two.

[VikingBlues]

Sounds like you beat me to it VB! First time I've heard you play slide and I like it! See what you think of this version:

download/file.php?id=1127

I tryed to just back-fill abit. Hope you get a kick out of it!

You've shown how much benefit a recording get from well played authentic slide. My slide playing is in a lower divison for sure - a bit 'slide and hope' to arrive at some decent notes - I need to do much more work on slide.
Certainly got 'a kick out of it' - I said "beautiful" out loud when I heard the slide at the end of the song - what a musical piece of playing that was.

Downloaded to the hard drive immediately - many thanks for this.

It seem that there are a lot of Peter Green fans in here. Those are two really great covers of a beautiful song. Great job you two.

Thank you for the encouraging words - I'm very unsure when it comes to doing cover versions especially when the original(s) are so damn good.

But doesn't the addition of some authentic slide take a blues song to new heights though - I've only scratched the surface of slide playing - I'm encouraged to learn more about it after hearing what oneeyedslide has brought to the party on this cover.

[Blindboy]

I'm liking all the slide stuff that is cropping up here.

[12bar]

I tryed to just back-fill abit. Hope you get a kick out of it!

Absolutely - fits like a glove!