Nobody Knows Why I Did This!

[VikingBlues]

I've had this rattling round in my head for too many days - so it's recorded and I can move on to other things. Box.net link as it's a cover.

Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out
http://www.box.net/shared/t98vep5qoz

Now - I've listened to versions by Eric, BB, Bessie Smith, Hawkeye Herman, and others. All different - well so's mine different!

VSA590 on rhythm and also (thanks to the DAW) bass. D'you know I think I do better bass lines using a guitar with the DAW pitch change than when I'm using a real bass.

Hagstrom on (quiet and understated) lead.

Multiple Me's on vocals.

And a Strat very quietly in the background pretending to be something else to add colour - may be buried too deep in the mix to be noticed.

Hope some of you enjoy it - now well over a year since any cover of this has been posted to the blues room and it's a really good song - should be heard more. Though not necessarily sung by me.

[2WheelsOfBlues]

VikingBlues is great !!

I was lisening to the song and by the first line i was thinking, hey i now this man, but from what????

Then it popt on in my head, the song with Halfblindlefty.....
So you have already a real sound of your self, not only the guitar playing, but the singing as well.

Then the song him self.....
Now I realize that again I'm too young to know this kind of songs.
Fortunately there are places like this for this wealth of material to share.
So VikingBlues, thanks for showcasing this song, I think it's very nice.

[vancouverois]

Pretty good version !
The singing is nice, the multiple you's add a nice touch.
Well done.

[Golfxzq]

Bravo... VB!!!

As I was listening to this I thought, "Hay, this is different. VB's singing is dominate in this piece and his playing is taking a back seat." Then about 1:25 in there is this great guitar solo for about 30 or 45 seconds... then right back to the dominant singing. I really liked it. It just shows how much your singing is improving with each post.

Great piece!!

[VikingBlues]

Kenworth, Vancouveris, Golfxzq - thanks for taking time out to listen and for the encouraging comments.

You've honed in on the singing Golfxzq - since my first attempt at singing on a recording last February I've tended to bury the vocals in the mix a bit - as has been sometimes pointed out (very tactfully) by kind people who have had the patience and nerve to listen. I'm pleased that I've been able to get the confidence together to get the vocals more "in yer face", despite the imperfections and wobbly bits. In this song, the singing is so much the most important part of the song so it really needs to be that way.

I can't shift the song out of my head just now - often happens on a recording project - it'll take a few days of listening to other music before it goes - I go to sleep with it rattling round in my head, and it starts up again forst thing in the morning.

It's quite an old-fashioned song and I tried to get an old fashioned acousticy sound. I think the VSA590 P90s have brought the right tone / ambience to the recording. I love playing chords on that guitar - the sound really lends itself to rhythm work.

I liked the sound of the two semi-acoustics together - nice contrast with the Vikings humbuckers and the VSA590s P90s.

The chorus needed multiple me's - thanks VC - adding these to the mix did give the song quite a boost. I keep trying to encourage my better half, Sandra, to help me out on these things as she has a much better voice than mine, but .....

I've been wondering about the vocal style - a few weeks ago I picked up a best of the Kinks CD in a second-hand rack - a bit of a Ray Davies influence at work?

[rocknroll93]

A very pleasing track VB, I liked it, you have some great vocal chords there

on a side note, now that I know you can post covers if it os on box.net you may be hearing some tracks of me very soon.

Peace,

john.

[Strummer07]

Nice one VB
I think you are right about the vocal similarity to Ray Davis ...........
Although I would say your voice is probaly better and more intune than the current Ray Davis.

Not sure what he's trying to do at the moment ..............resell / repackage his old back catologue in any way shape or form that will bring in a buck or two
He'll also seemingly sing with just about anyone who'll have 'im. last outing being Paloma Faith on the Royal Variety Show. She actually carried the song too .Ray sounded and looked pretty dreadful. IMO ..............It was his own song too ............"Lola" ............Time to hang up the guitar Ray ??

anyway back to "Down and Out".... VB ......sounds good ...like the guitar break too..all nicely stripped down..You can take over at R.D Gigs from now on !! .. How about a renditionof "Lola" next time .and we;ll see how close you can get !!

Incidentally Bass playing ......My V studio has a guitar to Bass simulator ....which is a lot of fun ...where can I pick up some very simple Bass Player tips ??

Well done VB !

[Blindboy]

Very nice!
I love this song, and have (very) occasionally tried to sing it around the campfire, but never tried to do any lead. Nice job.
Keep with the singing, it's coming along nicely. I know how scary it is to sing.

[MojoJim]

This is such fun to listen to. Good job, VB.

You really captured a vintage sound - especially with your singing. If I close my eyes there are parts of the song where I can see you in front of a big band and crooning through a cardboard megaphone - just like in movies from the 30's and 40's.

The guitar solo is much more modern and very good. All the layers work well on this. You're quite a versatile musician.

[VikingBlues]

Thanks Strummer and Blindboy (and thanks for the encouragement on the singing).

The singing is so difficult to be confident about - but then I hear a lot of duff notes from pro singers, so I tell myself "don't worry. But do I listen?

There was a Ray Davies sort of documentary thing on the TV recently Strummer - I thought he seemed a bit morose and unenthusiastic - but that's maybe his usual - or maybe he doesn't like cameras in his face.

Ummm - Strummer - you asked for bass playing tips (for blues):-
Not sure I know that much to advise, but ....
The root, 5th, flattened 7th and octave are an OK box-shape place to start - against a 12 bar play these sort of half-beat note patterns starting each bar with the root on each chord
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------3-3-5-5----------3-3-5-5-------------------------------------
--------3-3-5-5----------3-3-5-5---------3-3-5-5----------3-3-5-5-----5-5---------------5-5-----------------3-3-5-5----------3-3-5-5-
----5-5---------------5-5-------------5-5----------------5-5---------3-3--------------3-3------------------5-5---------------5-5----------
3-3--------------3-3--------------3-3---------------3-3--------------------------------------------------3-3--------------3-3--------------

That would be the first 8 bars - G7 /G7 /G7 /G7 /C7 /C7 /G7 /G7 /
Just keep that pattern going on all the chords. Root, Root, 5th, 5th, b7, b7, Octave, Octave.

Or you could go Root, Root, Octave, Octave, b7, b7, 5th, 5th

Or as an example with a bit of variety in timing you could go root for a beat, half-beat rest, and then all half-beats of 5th, b7, 5th, b7, Octave.

Basically mix them up in different patterns - the rhythm is almost as important as the notes - if you can get a groove going with a bit of a swing to it that helps. Don't stick to perfect beats and half-beats of it can sound a bit mechanical.

Rather like the lead work with the pentatonic as a starting point you'll also find you can throw in blue notes and accidentals as you get the hang of it.

I found it more difficult to get good free info on-line for bass compared to guitar. So I got a Hal Leonard "Blues Bass" book by Ed Friedland which was quite useful - has an audio CD with guitar and bass panned far left and right so you can listen to what the bass does or pan it to eliminate the bass and play along with the guitar part. Has some basic lessons incorporating songs like Born Under a Bad Sign, Cross Cut Saw, Hideaway, Hoochie Coochie Man, Key to teh Highway etc. Covers 12bar, shuffle, Intros, turnarounds, endings, Boogir, rhumba blues, etc. I like the way it didn't swamp you with theory - it shows by playing practical examples.

[HalfBlindLefty]

That sounded like something from halfway past the previous century.. and that's a compliment !
Great rendation VB. Like the singing a lot and the multiple voices are awesome.

Next time do one of the 5 part Eagles harmony songs ;P

/Hans

[VikingBlues]

This is such fun to listen to. Good job, VB.

You really captured a vintage sound - especially with your singing. If I close my eyes there are parts of the song where I can see you in front of a big band and crooning through a cardboard megaphone - just like in movies from the 30's and 40's.

The guitar solo is much more modern and very good. All the layers work well on this. You're quite a versatile musician.

Oops - I didn't see you'd posted this while I was putting my post answering Strummer and Blindboy together.

Thanks MojoJim - I appreciate your encouragement and thank you for taking time out to listen to my attempts at being a musician.

I just found this song got right under my skin as well as being really enjoyable - I'm glad that sense of enjoyment came through for you. But I found I was waking up with it going around in my head, and humming it at all different times of the day without meaning to. It's still been doing that all day today and I'm in that limbo of waiting for a different musical project to start me thinking about a different song / tune / lyric.

You're right that the solo is a more modern sound - it came out that way but seemed to fit - but as you'll have heard me say, I play by what my head tells me and only from a very limited amount of theory. I don't know that I could play a lead in an older-fashioned style as I don't really know what that should sound like or in what way the construction of the solo would need to be adjusted.

That sounded like something from halfway past the previous century.. and that's a compliment !
Great rendation VB. Like the singing a lot and the multiple voices are awesome.

Next time do one of the 5 part Eagles harmony songs ;P

/Hans

Blimey - just noticed your post in time Hans before I posted this reply. Thank you for your positive comments.

I enjoyed the old-fashioned aspect to this. I don't know - semi-acoustic guitars, Bessie Smith classics, big-band crooning. That's any semblance of street-credibility I had with my sons shot right out of the water!!! Next tthing you know I'll be buying a Jazz Guitar and going all acoustic, mellow, and hepcat.

I should admit that some of the voices are down to technology and editing (but not all of them).

The Eagles eh? Hmmmm - interesting.......
======================================================================================================
(BTW - anyone spotted what my Strat was pretending to be yet or did I bury it too deep in the mix?)

[Strummer07]

Thanks for the Bass line tips VB ............There's enough there to keep me going for 2-3 months !!
I'm sure in the 60's many Bass Guitarists based whole careers on less knowledge than you have provided.. much appreciated.

I just want to have a bit of fun with the Guitar - Bass simulator .

Back to "Down and Out" .... double tracking the voices must have been fun, did you do that electronically in your DAW or actually sing along to your own chorus line ?? ......must be quite odd hearing two of you !!

If you want to test out The Ray Davis theory .......try "Lola" , "You Really Got me " or "Waterloo Sunset" as your next project ......and we;ll see if we can't get you a job as a Kinks tribute act !!

[VikingBlues]

Thanks for the Bass line tips VB

No problems - hope it makes sense. Good luck with the bass simulator - if it works it saves those horrendous finger stretching moments on the longer bass neck.

Back to "Down and Out" .... double tracking the voices must have been fun, did you do that electronically in your DAW or actually sing along to your own chorus line ?? ......must be quite odd hearing two of you !!

Well - at the maximum there are three of the real me. For vocal manipulation on the DAW I try to help the colour / depth of the main vocal part by double tracking, and on the copy adding a bit of fx, most likely chorus; the original and the copy tracks are best split a bit in the stereo mix too, though best to keep them nearthe centre. I can do a bit of harmony myself, but my vocal range is quite restricted - mainly to the lower end. You may have noticed in the choruses there is (in the background) some quite high pitched singing. I hold my hand up and admit to having some help on this - it was that or I would need some major unpleasant surgery to hit the high notes! So - an Electro-Harmonix Voice Box set for higher harmony with the harmonies to come through at a lower volume level than what I was singing. It's not a magical solution though - if you sing any notes off key - the harmonies screw up big time. You also need to play the guitar chords at the same time as you're singing so it knows what to harmonise to - hit any wrong chords or wrong notes in the chord - not pleasant. I admit to having the same troubles playing the guitar and singing at the same time as Gerald Ford was said to have with walking and chewing gum.

My post in the OffTopic section - Boxing Day question has just one of me singing and the Voice Box harmonising, though I had it set for the harmonies being higher in the mix than I did on "Nobody Knows ,,,". This was it - the volume level was a bit low.
download/file.php?id=781

There - that's my mystique blown.

If you want to test out The Ray Davis theory .......try "Lola" , "You Really Got me " or "Waterloo Sunset" as your next project ......and we;ll see if we can't get you a job as a Kinks tribute act !!

Or possibly "Sunny Afternoon"? I'll think about it!!

[nxsneil]

VB,liked your version and vocals. Here's a link to our soundclick page with a Duo and Band version of same song, these were done approx. 3yrs ago now but we still include the song regularly in our sets. Songstream - http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6999999 or
http://soundclick.com/DeltaExpress - still haven't quite got used to adding url's yet so hope the links work.

[VikingBlues]

Here's a link to our soundclick page with a Duo and Band version of same song, these were done approx. 3yrs ago now but we still include the song regularly in our sets.

Good versions - much more in tune with the EC versions than mine - I get the impresion you all know the song inside out.

Good musicianship and all very together.

Here's a live version done by the teacher I've been mainly following on Jamplay - Hawkeye Herman. What I like about this version is that he tells it like a story with a great sense of style and dynamics - I've not heard it done that way anywhere else. The song proper kicks in about 1:45. Note - the volume is low. I'd love to be able to play something like this with that much pizzaz, but .... oh well.
HjCnAXEKxMU

[Golfxzq]

Great version VB... I really like that. He makes you actually feel the music, doesn't it?

[12bar]

That's so great - being able to sing, play and still have your own style. Sounds fantastic, like HBL said very authentic. Keep on!

[VikingBlues]

Great version VB... I really like that. He makes you actually feel the music, doesn't it?

Hawkeye is a very good teacher - teaches by showing how and with simple background to why - I get lost when some teachers launch into huge webs of complex theory. I believe he learned at the feet of many icons of the blues, including: Son House, Brownie McGhee, Bukka White, Mance Lipscomb, Furry Lewis, Lightin' Hopkins, John Jackson, K.C. Douglas, and Sam Chatmon. Pretty good credentials. And I love his enthusiasm when he gives his lessons - you get caught up in it - I always find I play with more feeling after being in contact with his lessons even if I'm not playing something related to that lesson.

That's so great - being able to sing, play and still have your own style. Sounds fantastic, like HBL said very authentic. Keep on!

Many thanks 12bar - yeah I'll keep going with this and maybe one day I'll get the hang of it.
And that's another thing I like about Hawkeye Hermans lessons - he encourages you to play like you want to do it - to develop your own style and not just copy him or anyone else.
Hope the new PC is behaving itself.