Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

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CarsickPhil
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Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by CarsickPhil »

Dear All

I would welcome your help in the ever vexing problem of deciding which voice to use when singing over a guitar accompaniment. And how to develop the chosen voice to be better.

I have a sort of resonant chest voice, which, if I manage to get in tune and stick within my limited range, can sound out to fill a space. Or I have another voice that is not strong or resonant, but has slightly better range, better expression and better diction. So I think I know which way to go, but I am still not that confident. Advice is needed.

I have two versions of the same song (short ones, you'll be relieved to hear):
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1ywgBNkcgY (weaker voice)
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxBGGbncu8 (bigger chest voice).

What do you think? Which should I choose? What should I do to make that voice better?

All the best wishes for the season

Phil
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losaavedra
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by losaavedra »

Personally I'd work on the second BCV sort of voice. You could experiment with different ways of expressing the same words, mess with the grammar more, make certain words more accented, and so on. You could also try (very) close-miking the vocals as that will alter the vocal tone generally. Tricky for us brits to get the blues inflections right ... when its mostly about pain and hardship, disappointments, and lots of other stuff we've rarely (if ever) experienced ourselves. So 'singing the blues' is far more of a 'performance' than a reflection of what we're going through in life. I looked through your entire YouTube collection while there ... consistently good work, well done. Nice to see a harp getting an airing. Looking forward to the next piece you do!
Mike
"I feel more like I do now than when I first came on" (Ronnie Scott, Maidstone)
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12bar
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by 12bar »

Not being a singer myself I'd vote for #2. Maybe a sort of combination of both does the trick? :dance:
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Strummer07
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by Strummer07 »

Steve
firstly well done with persevering with the singing ( its coming on !! :thumbsup: ) and in particular singing and playing fingerstyle at the same time !!

i'd be interested in how you "broke through " the syncopation barrier ..(or whatever the barrier is !! :icon_whoknows: ) .as I can strum and sing ... OK

but fingerstyle and even a spread pattern blues ... singing is tough .what is the secret ???


your two voices are both good

I much prefer number 1 as I feel its way more Lyrical and Authentic and a much more tonalaly pleasing , musical voice. Its more "You " and I think longer term it has more potential for you and singing
Voice 2 is more earthy and Bluesey ..but its less musical ...almost a bit of a dirge ... Spiritual voice. But ( for me ) it feels more enacted and less real you.

But as you have the two voices ........why not explore them both ??
when you want A racous and bluesy shouty voice ......go for V2
( rock bands often call the singer "The Shouter" )....V2 would work with Yr "St James Infirmary Blues "

When you want to really sing and want ..feeling , range and musicality...V1 is your go to" voice . if you were going to sing something like "Autumn Leaves"
IVoice 1 is what i would want to hear !

Both good .choose the right voice to fit the toon !! '
"Death is just a heartbeat away"
lyric from "Out in The Fields"
Gary Moore 1952-2011
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VikingBlues
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by VikingBlues »

I think both voices work and both could be appropraite depending what song / style of song it was. :thumbsup:

On this particular song I'm going to have to go with Strummer for choice. Although you point it out as being the weaker voice that extra range conrasts well with the guitar accompanying the song - which itself has a fairly limited range. Both guitar part and singing part having a limited range can make the overall song (for me) less musical.

I suspect too that the more you sing in the style of teh "weaker" voice the more it'll (slowly) improve. But as I said both voices work. You could chorus with yourself using each voice at the same time too.

Don't know that'll have helped though - that's made the answers a score draw : 2-2!

Great to be able to play and sing at the same time - but to be able to play finger-style and sing at the same time - that's extra hard. :clap:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
MikeL
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by MikeL »

Strummer07 wrote:I much prefer number 1 as I feel its way more Lyrical and Authentic and a much more tonalaly pleasing , musical voice. Its more "You " and I think longer term it has more potential for you and singing
That's pretty much the same as I was thinking when I listened. I think the voice in video #1 is well-suited to the song. The challenge that I hear is that the vocals are too constrained in trying to match the melody as played on the guitar. I'd like to hear a third version with the guitar being used as accompaniment rather than for playing the melody note for note (namely, concentrate on vocal expression of the lyrics/melody and then accompany that with more of that slide playing, which I think could really bring the song together). To ramble on further, perhaps plays chords as accompaniment to the vocals and add additional verse sections where the guitar does the talking. Then throw in some slide/jamming for the chorus/bridge parts (apologies but I'm never sure on proper use of these terms).

Cheers!
Mike
Cheers!
Mike

"A broken angel sings
From a guitar"
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

12bar wrote:Not being a singer myself I'd vote for #2. Maybe a sort of combination of both does the trick? :dance:
Same here, the 2nd one fits the song more.
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
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CarsickPhil
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by CarsickPhil »

Dear all

This is great feedback. Thank you all for taking time to listen and comment. You are a remarkably kind and generous bunch.

There's a bit of a split on whether 1 or 2 is best. I like the idea of keeping going with both voices to see what happens, as suggested, picking the one that best suits the tune. The big chest voice is good for spiritual songs that need to be sung out, but I need to work on range, expression and hitting the right notes. The other voice is more bluesy, but could be made better if I sung out a touch more and searched for some middle ground between the voices. Playing with mic location is a good idea. As is playing with phrasing, grammar, and how I articulate the words. Brilliant. Loads to experiment with during the holiday.

The other bit I found really helpful was the comment about the straight jacket I created by playing the melody on the guitar rather than playing a bass line or the chords. Excellent point. I did it to learn the tune, but I should have changed it for the performance. It did box me in a little and also shows too clearly when I drift out of tune. I could break the song in sections with rhythm backing while singing and more melodic playing for the solos, as suggested.I am going to work on this as well as the points above.

The question was raised about how I learned to finger pick and sing simultaneously. I was lucky to find some nice advice on the web. First, figure out what you're going to play while singing and see how the melody fits on the top of this (easy for me in this case as I played the melody). Then check exactly how the words fit to the melody and the chord changes - find out precisely which syllable you sing on each beat and at each chord change (I put a red circle around the critical syllables). Plod slowly through the accompaniment one line at a time nailing the words to the beat and the chord changes even if you're hopelessly out of tune. Switch between playing the melody to get your voice in tune to playing the accompaniment again to get the rhythm right. Keep on and on until the playing and singing is automatic. Don't do it in long sessions (I tried this and they can pretty counter productive); do it in many short'ish sessions spread over weeks. Eventually, even for someone like me, this advice finally worked. I can now pick up the guitar and just do it, but, my goodness, I thought I'd go nuts trying to get there. My partner was amazed by both my perseverance and her forbearance.

Thanks again for all your help and please send more comments if they come to mind.

All the best wishes of the season

Phil
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Blindboy
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by Blindboy »

Nice job. :thumbsup:
I gotta say, I like the second voice better for this one. It is more bluesy and emotional. Perhaps you could work on getting more range out of your BCV. :icon_whoknows:
As far as playing and singing goes, good job on that one. One thing you might try, ease up on the melody picking and use a heavy bass with the thumb with arpeggieted chords and fills to imply the changes and follow the vocal lines, at least most of the time. That leaves you room to really work the vocals. I am not particularly good at this, but here is an example from the old forum. My singing isn't especially good, but this attempts to illustrate what I am talking about.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9243831
Doing this can give the vocal melody more impact, and when you play the melody during the solo, it has more impact there too.
Just a suggestion... I am searching too. :thumbsup:
"Throw yo' big leg over me Mama, I might not feel this good again!"
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CarsickPhil
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Re: Nobody's Fault but Mine - playing and singing

Post by CarsickPhil »

Dear Blindboy
Thanks for the feedback. Your advice is very sound. The example is excellent. The solo stands out nicely. The backing for singing fits well. The really hard bit for me will be singing a melody reliably without notes to guide me. I can put together a melody track on headphones to guide my voice when multi-tracking, but I want to try to do it all in one take. Mmmm. It will take a lot of practice - I'll probably practice singing to a melody track a zillion times to try (perhaps on my ipod while walking to work) and lock it into my neurons, so that it just happens when I play the guitar. We'll see. Thanks again for the tips.
All my best wishes for the season
Phil
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