Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

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Golfxzq
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Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by Golfxzq »

Hay Guys... I read a LOT of chat abut how loud 15W amps are at home and how it disturbs the wifie and neighbors. I use a Vox VT15 Valtronicx all the time... BUT... I almost always use headphones, especially when the sweetie is around (which is most of the time). I have a decent, but not terribly expensive, set of headphones... Koss UR-20. Occasionally, if I am the only one in the house I unplug the headphones and crank the amp (I'm sure the opossums love that, MojoJim!!). Actually, I like the sound in my headphones better than through the amp speakers, much cleaner and no distractions.

Am I missing something here? Is it a mistake to constantly practice with headphones? :think:
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VikingBlues
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by VikingBlues »

If I'm worried that noise levels are likely to disturb or annoy others I find practice / playing using headphones can be liberating. It makes you feel you can "go for it" - take more risks and try things you wouldn't normally do. But then I know I'm far too self-conscious about people hearing me and hearing my "mistakes". If I was ever to find myselg gravitating towards a public performance (no chance!!!! :shy: ) I would force myself not to use the headphones when practicing I think.

I use a Vox AD15VT and use the speaker when I play that but if I want to use headphones I use the Vox Tonelab ST (very similar sound but with more options). I don't think I've used headphones on the amp. :think: I'll give it a try later today and let you know what i think on the comparative merits of headphones and speaker on mine.

If I know no-ones around I would prefer to just use the speaker for the extra dynamics - but it's not a major issue - I think with recording quite a lot I'm used to wearing headphones and feel at home with them on.

I've seen some people reckon they can hear the way they are playing the notes with more clarity using headphones. However I suppose it also depends on quality of speaker, quality of the headphone out amp circuit and quality of the headphones.

I reckon if you feel it's working for you to use headphones, then it's best to use them.
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VikingBlues
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by VikingBlues »

I managed to do a trial with the headphones before work this morning.

No idea how my headphones compare to yours Golfxzq - they're Sennheiser HD201 (nothing special about them - just well reviewed entry level) but they seem to be in the same sort of price bracket as your Koss headphones.

For me, I preferred the sound of the speaker as I felt I was missing the "presence" of the speaker sound on the headphones and wasn't getting the full tones of the guitar. I wasn't able to get the same sort of sound on the headphones with the amp as I get with the Vox Tonelab ST. Which is odd given how similar the sound of the Tonealb is to the speaker sound of the amp. :think:

It will vary of course as the different headphones will have different specs - impedances etc ... I'll stop there as I've no idea what the specs of headphones means. So it could be your Koss are a better match for the amp than my Sennheiser. :icon_whoknows:

Hope someone else can be more help. Off to work now ... :away:
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nxsneil
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by nxsneil »

IMO, if you are using a amp that has modelling, Amp modelling hardware or using software amps or plug-ins (Amplitube, Guitar Rig etc) you will always get a better and more accurate representation of the modelled sound thru headphones.
If you are playing live you can still get the same sound and tone by going straight into FOH speakers thru the desk.
But if you are going to be using your amp for live performances you really need to experiment on how to get those tones thru the actual amp you will be playing through. :beer:
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12bar
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by 12bar »

With headphones there's also no feedback amp - guitar. This may effect the sound on high volumes.
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Strummer07
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Not a big Headphone fan personally

Post by Strummer07 »

To a certain extent i think its a matter of personal preference and probably necessity as well ..............If i am down in the gym ... headpones are Ok

If I'm listening to a CD in the house ...I prefer speakers

Earphones kinda cut me off and also I jump a mile if anyone coms into the study when I am playing'cos I don't hear 'em come in.

+ Hot ears ..........also a rather unbecoming feature of earphones.

Most solid state or hybrid amps seem to out headphone jack sockets .however...........
I am led to believe that valve amps in general either don't have heaphone sockets or the sound that comes out of them is not very good or representative of what would come out of an amp speaker ( I think HBL pointed it out) ...........I had no choice with the Fender Blues Junior .............It did not have a headphone out socket.

I thought of a modification and also having an attenuator switch stuck in .but deceided against that route in the end

The Blackstar amps have a dedicated headhone socket , which I have yet to try and Iit appears it goes through some kind of "emulator" circuits - So ...I can select from either a
1 x 12 or a 4 x 12 speaker cabinets option ...... .pretty cool !!.so I can imagine myself playing with a 'Marshall stack' behind me !! .I wish !!

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Blindboy
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by Blindboy »

I only use the headphones when using my GuitarPort. (I can't seem to figure out how to get the sound come out of the speakers, except for playback. :wall: ) I don't mind them, and it is convenient for playing when my wife is asleep, but I much prefer the sound of my amps. None of my amps have a headphone out option. Volume isn't an issue where I live, so it is all about tone. I feel that the actual speakers moving air and the actual tubes glowing sound much more alive than virtual tubes and speakers. :oldie: There is also something to be said for "practicing with the rig with which you gig". :big_smile:
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weelie
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by weelie »

I don't like headphones. (Says a man who is just Albert King listening through headphones.)

To me playing live and loud is where it's at! Headphones... it's slightly sterile, and my flares don't shake either! :D Of course I do play with headphones at home, and when recording. But my ears don't like it.

When I just started out, I didn't like electric guitars because they were so loud that everybody could hear me... so I played unplugged a lot... not good. My wife considers me playing the strat unplugged (or through headphones) late at night too loud too. :(

I don't know if Neil's comment on "through headphones always more accurate" for modeling amps necessarily is true. (At least) some combo modeling amps have speakers designed for the specific tone too, so using a flat hifi response speaker (or headphones) doesn't necessarily equate the most "accurate" tone...?

I am no expert on live applications, but when I've played modeling amps in a band, they just never sounded good, but I've used the internal speaker. I guess it's just missing part of the flares shaking breathing amp feeling... who knows. Maybe just need a bigger modeling amps! :D

Currently I only have a microcube... which doesn't really count any which way.

My headphones are cheap Philips. I am the kind that invests in records, not stereo equipment.
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12bar
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by 12bar »

I don't have a choice - when I have time to play my kids are sleeping... :baby: :music2:
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Golfxzq
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by Golfxzq »

VikingBlues wrote:No idea how my headphones compare to yours Golfxzq - they're Sennheiser HD201 (nothing special about them - just well reviewed entry level) but they seem to be in the same sort of price bracket as your Koss headphones.
I considered the Sennheiser headphones when I bought the Koss... very similar in specks so they should sound about the same.
Nxsneil wrote:IMO, if you are using a amp that has modelling, Amp modelling hardware or using software amps or plug-ins (Amplitube, Guitar Rig etc) you will always get a better and more accurate representation of the modelled sound thru headphones.
If you are playing live you can still get the same sound and tone by going straight into FOH speakers thru the desk.
If I live to be about 153 and practice intently I may be live on stage, but probably not before that. Right now I only play for myself and a few family members who graciously suffer through my mistakes. My Vox does model other amps and has some cool effects but these all seem to come through the earphones fine.
Strummer07 wrote:To a certain extent i think its a matter of personal preference and probably necessity as well ..............If i am down in the gym ... headpones are Ok
You had me going there for a second... I got it now, but for an instant I thought "Wow, he is really good... playing guitar while working out in the gym!!"
Most solid state or hybrid amps seem to out headphone jack sockets .however...........
I am led to believe that valve amps in general either don't have heaphone sockets or the sound that comes out of them is not very good or representative of what would come out of an amp speaker ( I think HBL pointed it out)
My Vox is supposed to have one "tube"... I'm not sure if it is an actual tube or a faux-tube, but I like the sound. You are right abut the sound, it does sound somewhat different from headphones to speaker. This amp has one other unique feature... on the back is a pot which reduces the power output, so I can dial the 15W down to 7 or 8. This does affect the sound somewhat but I don't have the ear yet to discern much difference.
BlindBoy wrote:it is convenient for playing when my wife is asleep, but I much prefer the sound of my amps.
I agree BB... very convenient... but with all the talk about how loud amps are I was wondering if there was some reason for not using them. It seems that most good players, like yourself, prefer the sound of the actual amp. I suppose the quality of the speakers would also make a tremendous difference.

(BTW - I thought the Caterpiggle Crawl was great, loved the sound, played it over and over. I hope to learn finger picking someday... maybe at 154, right after I go on stage.)
Weelie wrote:I don't like headphones. (Says a man who is just Albert King listening through headphones.)

To me playing live and loud is where it's at! Headphones... it's slightly sterile, and my flares don't shake either! :D
"Live" is the key word, Weelie... My playing sounds somewhat "asleep" sometimes. But I have come to the conclusion, from all this great feedback that you are correct... speakers are the way to go for loud and live but headphones are great for practice (which is where I am at).
"Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right."
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VikingBlues
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by VikingBlues »

Golfxzq wrote: My Vox is supposed to have one "tube"... I'm not sure if it is an actual tube or a faux-tube, but I like the sound. You are right abut the sound, it does sound somewhat different from headphones to speaker. This amp has one other unique feature... on the back is a pot which reduces the power output, so I can dial the 15W down to 7 or 8. This does affect the sound somewhat but I don't have the ear yet to discern much difference.
Your Vox should have a real tube in the power amp section. "The VOX Valve Reactor circuit that uses a 12AX7 to produce real tube power amp sound" as Vox put it.

No tube in the preamp so it's not the full deal tube amp - sort of a hybrid, but I reckon it gives you extra compared to a similar price solid state amp. Certainly streets ahead in tone of any non tuble small amp I've had / used at the same sort of price level. I got mine because I like the Vox sound and at the time they didn't have the 5W type real tube amps around as an option. Mine's an older one so it doesn't have the attenuator so I'm stuck at 15 watt -have to juggle the volume and master volume controls to keep the neighbours happy. :roll:
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MojoJim
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Re: Am I Missing Something with Head Phones?

Post by MojoJim »

When I bought my Peavey modeling amp last year the marketing literature made a big deal about how Peavey had done a lot of engineering to make sure that the headphones sound was an accurate representation of the speaker sound. Because I didn't know anything about amps (and still don't know much) that surprised me. Why would it be a challenge to make the headphones sound like the final sound?

HBL and some of the other folks who are not afraid to take a soldering iron to the insides of an amp probably have better thoughts on this - but here's what I concluded.

It may depend on where in the amp the manufacturer taps in for the head phones signal.

If they pick it up before the power stages it would be convenient because the signal levels are still low. But then the headphones sound would be missing everything that the power stages add (including good distortion) plus it would be missing the sound of the speakers and cabinet. Pretty weak.

If they tap in after the power stages they have to bring the signal level down to headphone level. I think that's easy enough with some passive components. But you will still be missing the addition to the sound made by the speakers and cabinet.

Maybe some modeling amps will run the headphones sound back through the software to add speaker and cabinet effects - I don't really know.

Anyway, it seems reasonable to me that headphone sound may be lacking some of the goodness that speakers produce.

I use my headphones sometimes but I usually wind up tangled in the cord.
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