Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

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MojoJim
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Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by MojoJim »

I have a new guitar on the way so I was shopping for a new guitar stand. I looked at several at Musician's Friend, etc. and the specs on some of them said: "The rubber pads on the stand are not for use with guitars with nitrocellulose lacquer finishes."

I slowly turned in horror to look at my beautiful Strat sitting on its stand being supported by rubber pads. I bought the stand at Guitar Center about a year ago when I got the guitar. It never occurred to me that the stand could destroy the guitar.

Is it possible that the seeds of destruction have already been sown and that, even now, the finish on the guitar is beginning to disintegrate at the molecular level? :yikes: Will I shortly be able to sell this relatively new Strat as a Road Worn, Vintage 50's Strat?

There must be something here I don't understand. The dumbest business model in the world would be to build and sell a guitar stand that destroy guitars.

I've done a little research on this but I'm not coming up with much. Maybe somebody here knows what's going on with this.

Maybe the rubber pads don't dissolve the finish. Maybe it's just abrasive if the gear is handled roughly. Maybe it only does damage in high heat.

Maybe very few guitars have a nitrocellulose finish. I understand that nitrocellulose is usually referred to a lacquer. But maybe there are many other kinds of lacquer besides nitrocellulose. When the Fender specs say my guitar has a lacquer finish maybe it doesn't mean nitrocellulose.

Any insights?
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Strummer07
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by Strummer07 »

JimRR

I read your post and ...............before replying whizzed over and checked my guitars .. sitting in its stand with Neoprene rubber protection !!

All is well .."Tank the Lord".......... as they say in Ireland.

However , whilst I fully understand your concerns,
1) My guitars have been sitting on one or other of my guitar stands for way over 2 years on and off ...and there is not a blemish !!.. I've just recechecked
2) I imagine this is precautionary 'cya' attachment by the manufacturers ..........they can't afford to be liable for even the vaguest smudge or blemish in these litigious times.

None of my guitars have been damaged sitting on a stand .by the stand rubbers ...(Owned over the years ) Takemine/ Gibson / Fender / Martin / Taylor /PRS / Seagull / and so on all sat on the stands, Hercules and XCG (Brands not nickmnames!!) My ES339 sits on one as I type ...........and its fine ! ........blimey it looks good!! ( note to self ... must post a piccy )

But I have to say that my preference is to get the guitars up off the floor unless I am playing it , so i use wall hangers.
But even these use neoprene rubber so the headstock sits on them...

I really like looking at the guitar on the wall ..they are real living visual art !! beats a print hands down.

You can't trip over it or drop stuff on it

Small visitors ( who are most welcome btw) can't play with things unless I am there ....................a guitar as in amzing attraction.

Honestly ....I don't think you should worry too much
"Death is just a heartbeat away"
lyric from "Out in The Fields"
Gary Moore 1952-2011
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VikingBlues
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by VikingBlues »

There's a lot of worry about on forums with this one, sometimes verging on paranoia but thats not surprising given that it's usually the higher quality expensive guitars that have nitrocellulose. :wall:

As well as rubber I have seen that vinyl can do serious damage and that means some straps are a risk, as are capos.

If you wrap the contact points of the stand in 100% cotton cloth its not totally safe (see the paragraph below) but you can be at least less worried, but if chemicals get into the nitrocellulose they can continue to work after the contact is stopped. Hopefully though if it's been on the stand over the past year and no signs of damage yet then you may be OK.

Found this on a forum - "Page 13 of my RIC Guitar/Base Care & Maintenance Manual. "Chlorine is responsible anytime a guitar's fininsh appears to melt, dissolve, or appear tacky. Unfortunately, many imported guitar stand bumpers, foam rubber padding or packaging materials, and polyvinal chloride plastic bags emit chlorine and other chemicals whhich can seriously damage the guitar's finish. etc." " RIC's CEO replied - "It's difficult to repair these as the worst case contamination is the plasticizer causing softness that keeps spreading on the guitar, rather like flesh eating bacteria! Plasticizing compounds will even move through protective cloth coverings although it certainly slows them down. "

And McKnight Guitars - "Vinyl, Rubber & Plastics: So here’s the deal: Vinyl eats lacquer. As such, it presents significant danger to a nitrocellulose lacquer finish. Rubber also can discolor and soften lacquer. A vinyl covered guitar stand can damage lacquer finishes. You’ll also find that certain capos can inflict this same bit of damage. I find it interesting that guitar stands, hangers and straps made with vinyl are still sold. Worse yet, most, if not all, are sold without a disclaimer about the damage they can cause! "

I used to have a Gibson SG Standard and kept it in its hard case - never used a stand. I was always a bit paranoid :sad: about the nitrocellulose finish. In a way I'm glad I've now got a good guitar that's a poly finish - one less thing to worry about. But I'm sure i can worry about something else instead. :D

And yes - isn't it dumb that stands, straps and capos are sold for guitars in the knowledge they may damage them. :angry:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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BadBluesPlayer
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by BadBluesPlayer »

I used some old 100% cotton socks to cover the rubber on my stand. You can also wrap the rubber with strips of 100% cotton fabric, like from a t shirt or something like that. The cotton supposedly won't harm the finish.
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12bar
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by 12bar »

Let's take a chemical look :yikes: on it...
VikingBlues wrote:Found this on a forum - "Page 13 of my RIC Guitar/Base Care & Maintenance Manual. "Chlorine is responsible anytime a guitar's fininsh appears to melt, dissolve, or appear tacky. Unfortunately, many imported guitar stand bumpers, foam rubber padding or packaging materials, and polyvinal chloride plastic bags emit chlorine and other chemicals whhich can seriously damage the guitar's finish. etc."
That's not what's in the manual - and it's quite unlikely. Chlorine is a gas which may emit from very new chlorinated products like PVC or Neoprene. It's NOT in typical rubber. This is from the actual manual http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/manual.pdf :
Protect your purchase from various chemicals such as household cleaners, especially chlorine. Many compounds found in rubber padding or packaging aterials, plastic bags, imported guitar stands, hand soaps, lotions, sanitizers, etc., cause the finish to melt, dissolve, appear tacky, or color bleed.
There are many cleaners that generate (elemental!) chlorine (Cl2) (often called "active") for cleaning and bleaching purpose. Don't use them for your axe.

PVC (only soft PVC!) contains plasticizers like Bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate or other phthalates which can migrate out of the PVC (touch old PVC - it feels sticky) into the lacquer. Nitrocellulose lacquer is very sensitive to those migrating chemicals, as well as to neoprene or rubber monomers and oligomers. Neoprene and rubber degrade into those when it gets older, so does rubber.

The solution is already given: a cotton sock. Or silk if you want it luxurious :big_smile: . Don't use a piece of a garden hose - it's also PVC.
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Blindboy
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by Blindboy »

Wow, I never knew about this. :think: Maybe because I never use stands. I usually lean the guitar on my amp on stage and usually keep them in the case at home.
"Throw yo' big leg over me Mama, I might not feel this good again!"
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12bar
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by 12bar »

Blindboy wrote:Wow, I never knew about this. :think: Maybe because I never use stands. I usually lean the guitar on my amp on stage and usually keep them in the case at home.
...or stand on it... :lol:
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Blindboy
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by Blindboy »

12bar wrote: ...or stand on it... :lol:
:rofl: Only occasionally.
I saw SRV a bunch of times. During "Voodoo Chile" he used to stand on his "Number One", pick it up by the neck and drop it. Made a heck of a noise through the amps. :yikes:
"Throw yo' big leg over me Mama, I might not feel this good again!"
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VikingBlues
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by VikingBlues »

12bar wrote:Let's take a chemical look :yikes: on it...
VikingBlues wrote:Found this on a forum - "Page 13 of my RIC Guitar/Base Care & Maintenance Manual. "Chlorine is responsible anytime a guitar's fininsh appears to melt, dissolve, or appear tacky. Unfortunately, many imported guitar stand bumpers, foam rubber padding or packaging materials, and polyvinal chloride plastic bags emit chlorine and other chemicals whhich can seriously damage the guitar's finish. etc."
That's not what's in the manual - and it's quite unlikely. Chlorine is a gas which may emit from very new chlorinated products like PVC or Neoprene. It's NOT in typical rubber. This is from the actual manual http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/manual.pdf :
Protect your purchase from various chemicals such as household cleaners, especially chlorine. Many compounds found in rubber padding or packaging aterials, plastic bags, imported guitar stands, hand soaps, lotions, sanitizers, etc., cause the finish to melt, dissolve, appear tacky, or color bleed.
Oops! Shows that VB shouldn't believe what he sees on other forums. Best to leave the answers to people in the know - sorry about that. :shy:
Thanks for the real answer 12bar. :thumbsup:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
DetroitBlues
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Re: Nitrocellulose lacquer and guitar stands

Post by DetroitBlues »

Very few strats are nitro finished other then Highway 1 and Custom Shop. Worst case senerio, just rap some soft cloth around the rubber pads on the stand and you'll be fine if you are really worried about it. I've seen more damage to Nitro from cases then stands, road rash, or other methods of antiquing a guitar. If you have a poly or other finish, you won't need to worry about it at all... MIA/MIM/MIJ Strats, Epiphones, Ibanez, Jackson, etc... are just fine on those stands. Gibson is the only guitar company the uses Nitro on most of their guitars....
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