NGD resulting in NAD!

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VikingBlues
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NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

Nearly 3 weeks ago was an NGD. :banana:

Breedlove Pursuit Concert Electro Acoustic. Solid cedar top, laminate mahogany back and sides, tortoise shell binding, mahogany neck.

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It was a bit of an unplanned purchase. An E-Bay seller that my better half was checking out for ukuleles had some acoustic guitars she thought I might be interested in. I think a lot of this sellers items are bought from shop closures, surplus stock, auctions by the tax man etc. and are basically "new".

I did get interested in a Gordon Giltrap Signature 6 string, but it went for nearly new price levels - too much for me. The Breedlove Pursuit had also taken my interest. Success - managed to get it for just over half of the cheapest new price I could find - not an authorised dealer so no warranty, but at that price I felt it was a good deal!! :cool:

So much for my moving to short scale guitars. So much for my "never buying an acoustic guitar untried on line". All my principles go out of the window when there's a bargain about. Billed as "only been on show in a shop for a little while" and I can believe that. Apart from one small blemish on the soundboard only visible when the light catches it in a certain way, and apart from my having to stick the plastic connection plate for the electrics wiring back onto the underside of the soundboard :wall: I've found it to be in fine condition.

The strings did need changed though - the ones that were on it were rather like slightly rusting cheesewire under the fingers, but I've encountered those sort of strings on new guitars in some local guitar shops so it's not particularly an on-line fault.

Although it's full scale length the nut width is a bit narrower and the neck shape feels comfortable for me too which all helps make it comfortable enough to play. The sound is certainly different to my Lowden and to my Tanglewood TW73. The TW73 is a parlour and has that aspect to it's sound of course. The Lowden is braced differently to the standard USA methods and this gives it a different sort of voice. The Breedlove is maybe more normal USA in it's bracing. Anyway it's good to have some different sounding guitars.

More GAS immediately bubbled away as a result of this guitar because it's an electro acoustic. So just this last week one of these arrived:-
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Fishman Loudbox Mini. 60 watt, 2 channels - guitar and microphophone, XLR out, Aux In. 3 band eq for guitar plus reverb and chorus, 2 band eq plus reverb for microphone channel. Just 20 lbs weight - hooray! 6.5" speaker plus 1" tweeter - also makes it good for playing backing tracks.

So it's a whole new learning process for VB - quite a different style of playing is needed with an acoustic through an amp when the pick up is an under-saddle one. More to do with string vibration on the saddle than with sound within the guitar body.

Early days for me with both guitar and amp - but here's the Breedlove unamplified through a microphone.
:music1: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13171963

and here's it is (not the same music) played through the Loudbox mini. Maybe not tamed the bass enough though.
:music1: https://app.box.com/s/m784e48jjm2buem27fqqu91wnrebog6z

One day I'll maybe get the hang of it all and get the amplified sound to be reasonably close to the acoustic sound! :roll:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

Looks like a real nice guitar VB.
The 1st sample doesn't make me hold my breath. There is something missing in the sound. I've heard these guitars irl and know they have a rather full rich sound, so I guess it must have something to do with microphone(s) and/or the position(s). Recording an non amped acoustic is far more difficult than recording the sound of a guitar amp.

I like the 2nd sample the best. Great little amp you've got there.
BTW : Don't you dare to touch that bass :naughty: :wink:

Nice playing to :thumbsup:
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
MichaelRobinson
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by MichaelRobinson »

VB .......... You really have gone in to play acoustically. It seems that you worked a part last time to get the trust of new stuff in the collection.

The tunes you uploaded here sounds good and the guitar seems to be a good thing. You have a nose for doing good business it seems.
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VikingBlues
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

Thanks for commenting guys. :thumbsup: Sorry for my lack of response - I got very, very depressed about the whole issue of getting sounds from this combination of gear and I have only just resolved the problem and it has allowed me to get back playing more music again.
HalfBlindLefty wrote:The 1st sample doesn't make me hold my breath. There is something missing in the sound. I've heard these guitars irl and know they have a rather full rich sound, so I guess it must have something to do with microphone(s) and/or the position(s).
I can confirm that the sound on that recording was a pretty fair copy of the real thing. I too have heard these guitars and have heard a rather full rich sound. I think the lack of that full rich sound was down to my very light playing style - which I am stuck with due to my finger joints.

I'm near 100% sure that the way I play wasn't moving the guitar soundboard enough to get the most from it, and the bridge truss rod arrangement probably makes the soundboard even less responsive at my low impact levels. I notice all I said about the sound in my first post was that it was different - not exactly a lot of praise. The fact that after seeming not too bad the guitar never really became that comfortable to play (just a bit too big in body and the longer scale length) and the inevitable had to happen - it is now sold!

Life is way too short to keep trying to make an incompatible guitar work for me. The person who bought it is very happy with it - and I am not surprised to find that it suits someone else really well. A good deal for me and a good deal for them. :cool:
HalfBlindLefty wrote:I like the 2nd sample the best. Great little amp you've got there.
It certainly is a very nice acoustic amp. Very quiet too - no hum / buzz at all which is a big big plus for the sort of music I like to play.

So we really now have ...

"NGD resulting in NAD resulting in NGD"

This time I thought things through better.
1) I needed a short scale guitar.
2) I needed a small size body to it.
3) I needed it to cost the same sort of money I sold the Breedlove for.
That really leaves a very limited choice indeed.

Luck was with me. A VIP deal came up on Gear4Music that got me nearly £100 off the general internet price for a guitar that met my want list. :cool:

A Tanglewood Java TW JPE
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24.75" scale, Parlour Size, same price level as the Breedlove got sold for.
OK - I already have a Tanglewood Parlour - the TW73, but the TW73 has no electrics and Tanglewood do not seem to have a standard size for Parlours.

The photo below shows the TW73 on the left and the new guitar on the right. Quite a big variation in size for two Parlours by the same company.
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It is remarkably good for the price. It is a very different sound to the TW73 despite both being Parlours with solid cedar tops. The smaller body size of the Java will be a factor, along with laminated back and sides, which are of amara/mango rather than the solid mahogany of the TW73. So the sound is quite a lot brighter and zingier.

The only negatives are that the bottom of the saddle has not been levelled at right angles to the sides of the saddle, the tone control of the Fishman Sonitone is not really worth having for all the difference it makes, and the saddle has some rather untidily cut string slots in it. But there are no flaws in the finish, no sharp fret ends, and it's nice and tidy inside the guitar body. Good playing action. Even arrived with good strings - if you like coated (which I don't).

It's a good guitar for sitting down and just noodling / improvising on and has already produced my first "composition" for a couple of months as a result. Not that it's a worthy composition, but I am happy to be able to put together something that works at all - progress on a couple of years back when I couldn't get anything remotely musical put formally together.

Oddly I'm not that keen on the "V" shaped mango insert in the back of the body, though I guess it's probably its biggest feature as a USP.
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Despite my criticism of the lack of effect of the tone control on the Fishman Sonitone system it doesn't matter as I have managed to get a plugged in sound that's close enough to the real thing to keep me happy (albeit there is inevitable piezo "quack").

By way of a sound sample if anyone is interested I made a recording using the piezo route to the Fishman Loudbox Mini amp and at the same time also used the Avantone condenser mic into the PC interface, Here's links to the Piezo only, the microphone only and an equal balanced mix of the two.
:music1: Microphone only : https://app.box.com/s/pevv130qm82r9mxf368llj3lsoabnt90
:music1: Piezo / amp only : https://app.box.com/s/ndfmmo1kuypc7ti5c6zf2zmrxrb74h8w
:music1: Mix of both : https://app.box.com/s/h5rughsr5qqt0cb2vw6t85haznzaiihg
I'm happy with all three. Nice to have things take a turn for the better. :clap:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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Blindboy
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by Blindboy »

That's a beautiful guitar! Sounds great too. I have always loved parlour guitars. They are great for fingerstyle blues. I have a late '50's Regal parlour guitar that I noodle on from time to time.
I have never tried to play an acoustic with peizo pickups... don't own any, and play electric out in public. When I used to play in an acoustic duo/trio, I always miked my guitars, because I used an old archtop acoustic for fingerstyle, a wooden resophonic and a metal resophonic for slide stuff. It would have been too expensive to put pickups on all three guitars.
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MikeL
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by MikeL »

VikingBlues wrote: and here's it is (not the same music) played through the Loudbox mini. Maybe not tamed the bass enough though.
:music1: https://app.box.com/s/m784e48jjm2buem27fqqu91wnrebog6z

One day I'll maybe get the hang of it all and get the amplified sound to be reasonably close to the acoustic sound! :roll:
Sounds pretty darned nice to me VB. Your playing sounds almost effortless, which matches that style of music (some music calls for some struggle but not this style, imo). Hope you don't mind if I add it to one of my playlists. :cool:
Cheers!
Mike

"A broken angel sings
From a guitar"
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VikingBlues
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

Blindboy wrote:That's a beautiful guitar! Sounds great too. I have always loved parlour guitars. They are great for fingerstyle blues. I have a late '50's Regal parlour guitar that I noodle on from time to time.
I have never tried to play an acoustic with peizo pickups... don't own any, and play electric out in public. When I used to play in an acoustic duo/trio, I always miked my guitars, because I used an old archtop acoustic for fingerstyle, a wooden resophonic and a metal resophonic for slide stuff. It would have been too expensive to put pickups on all three guitars.
Glad you like the sound Blindboy. :D
The piezo pickup route is rather expensive if you have a few guitars - and it's tricky (I've found) to get a sound that way that is close enough to the real sound of an acoustic guitar - this one is my first success (out of 3) on that and I take no credit for it - just luck. But quite nice to be able to record when there's noise going on - lawns being mowed, hedges trimmed, dogs barking etc. Nothing beats the mic'd up sound for an acoustic guitar recording though - two microphones preferably I've found. I'm pleased that the piezo system on this new guitar does allow me to play in my normal style - the one on the Breedlove lost any sound from a note as soon as the string stopped vibrating which meant leaving the fingers on the fretboard for longer - a PITA.

The small size of the parlours do make them ideal for noodling. I agree with your comment about them being good for fingerstyle blues (I have a low cost Gretsch Jim Dandy - as used by Eric Bibb - which is particularly bluesy and even smaller in size). I generally like the sound of Parlours more, but more recently my fingers have got more arthritic and a short scale will put less strain on them and allow me to play for more years. My left hand pinky finger is now almost unusable for guitar playing. :tears:
MikeL wrote: Sounds pretty darned nice to me VB. Your playing sounds almost effortless, which matches that style of music (some music calls for some struggle but not this style, imo). Hope you don't mind if I add it to one of my playlists. :cool:
Thanks Mikel. :D
No problem about adding to the playlist - if anything I play can be thought that good by anyone that hears it I'm more than happy they do that. :thumbsup:
I like effortless - suits my lazy nature and the lack of speed in my old fingers, not to mention slowness of thought! :wink:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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12bar
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by 12bar »

Life is way too short to keep trying to make an incompatible guitar work for me.
That's so true - I'm in Hospital after a not too serious surgery and just trying to get my New Smartphone working. Again no guitar for a while. Thanks for uploading those beautiful music, keeps me busy for a while. I'll be back in a few days.
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VikingBlues
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

12bar wrote:
Life is way too short to keep trying to make an incompatible guitar work for me.
That's so true - I'm in Hospital after a not too serious surgery and just trying to get my New Smartphone working. Again no guitar for a while. Thanks for uploading those beautiful music, keeps me busy for a while. I'll be back in a few days.
Get well soon Gerd - wishing you a speedy recovery. :thumbsup:
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12bar
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by 12bar »

Thanks, I have now WLAN so I can listen a lot!
:D
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

12bar wrote:
Life is way too short to keep trying to make an incompatible guitar work for me.
That's so true - I'm in Hospital after a not too serious surgery and just trying to get my New Smartphone working. Again no guitar for a while. Thanks for uploading those beautiful music, keeps me busy for a while. I'll be back in a few days.
Get well soon Gerd.

No like hospitals. ( Extra, because it's my turn sometime soon. Extraction of all the teeth from my upper jaw, after numerous inflammations over the last 4 months it's about time)
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

VB, great looking and sounding guitar.
This time I like the Microphone only sound. it's much more natural sounding, which in my opinion fits the guitar best)

Love the playing
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12bar
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by 12bar »

Thanks HBL, you got a pm. Don't want to hijack this thread.
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VikingBlues
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

HalfBlindLefty wrote:VB, great looking and sounding guitar.
This time I like the Microphone only sound. it's much more natural sounding, which in my opinion fits the guitar best)

Love the playing
This guitar suits my style of playing much better so the acoustic sound works better for me. It needs much less impact on the strings to sing. :cool:

I suspect too that being smaller and more comfortable it gets me more relaxed so the playing flows better.

I'm very pleased to be past my struggles with the Breedlove - it's a very depressing experience trying to get something from a guitar that, through no fault of its own, is not the one for you.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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VikingBlues
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Re: NGD resulting in NAD!

Post by VikingBlues »

VikingBlues wrote:
HalfBlindLefty wrote:VB, great looking and sounding guitar.
This time I like the Microphone only sound. it's much more natural sounding, which in my opinion fits the guitar best)

Love the playing
This guitar suits my style of playing much better so the acoustic sound works better for me. It needs much less impact on the strings to sing. :cool:

I suspect too that being smaller and more comfortable it gets me more relaxed so the playing flows better.

I'm very pleased to be past my struggles with the Breedlove - it's a very depressing experience trying to get something from a guitar that, through no fault of its own, is not the one for you.

Good luck with your upcoming hospitalisation HBL - those frequent inflammations sound very painful. Hope it's a speedy process and you make a quick recovery and get quickly out of the place. :fingerscrossed:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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