New Lowden

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VikingBlues
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New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

I've spent a few months trying higher end acoustic guitars with the aim of getting a "special one" to mark my 60th which comes up in 7 months.

Several trips to Edinburgh guitar stores including trying Martins and Taylors going up as high as £2,500 (3200 euros) got me nowhere. "Different" to my main Tanglewood TW73 acoustic, but none gave me enough extra to justify anything like the extra price tag. A Maton EBG808 took me by surprise as being the best bet in that I found myself enjoying playing it and being creative, and liked the sound despite the laminate back and sides.

But then I got chances to try a couple of handmade guitars. They weren't for me as they were too big and needed a stronger style of playing than mine to bring out the sound. If I did play them harder they were very good though. Which got me thinking about handmade options. Research into handmade guitars then started in earnest. But most often in the UK you have to get one made for you - often around a one year waiting list, and you're buying before trying the actual instrument. Not keen on either of those ideas. I said about my difficulties on a UK acoustic forum and one of the members let me borrow their 14 year old Lowden S10 for a few weeks! I was encouraged as a result to seriously pursue the hand made route. So I started scouring websites to track down any shops selling handmade guitars. Very few in the UK and hardly any at all in Scotland. I tracked down a shop in Stonehaven - a 280 mile round trip ... a stay in a hotel overnight was needed and arranged.

I tried in the following order:-
Brook Clyst - Parlour guitar - European Spruce with Maple back and sides - short Scale - 44mm nut.
Brook Lyn - Sort of 00 size - Sitka Spruce with Mahogany back and sides - short scale - 45mm nut.
Brook Torridge - Sitka Spruce with Bubinga back and sides - short scale 44mm nut.
Lowden S32 - Sitka Spruce with Rosewood back and sides - short scale - 45mm nut.
Tanglewood TW73 .... for comparative purposes.
The Brook Taw they had in a couple of flavours - OM sort of size but bigger than my TW45 which is about all I can take.

The Taw I only got as far as holding and playing a very few notes. Way too big and uncomfortable for me. The Torridge didn't appeal to me for sound and somehow sounded slightly out of tune whatever I did on the tuning. The Lyn was OK - I quite liked the sound, but for me it was no better than my TW73. I tried the TW73 they had and didn't like it as much as mine. Very different sound and tone to the one I have - and didn't seem as responsive - which just shows how two acoustic guitars of the same model are likely to sound different.

Two strong contenders remained. The Brook Clyst they had was the easiest acoustic guitar to play that I've ever tried and the music flowed very easily. I also liked the sounds it made and those sounds were not like the TW73 despite both being Parlour size - with a European Spruce / Maple combo I didn't expect they would be the same. It had really good responsiveness and projection and the sound was bright but in a musical way - but there was a hint of the what I'd call buzziness, a little bit of an edge. It was immediately apparent that the Lowden S32 had a clarity, responsiveness and smoothness in its sounds. Very much to my surprise, with its Sitka Spruce top and Rosewood back and sides, it was not as bright in the upper registers as the old S10 that I borrowed which was Cedar / Mahogany. Which was good in my view, as I found the S10 had just too much treble/jangle for comfort. I also found it easier to play than the old S10 - the shorter scale helped on the S32 and the waist is more curved which seemed to make it stay on my right leg much better. It also had in common with that S10 a great balance across all the notes of the fretboard and sustain with the hint of tonal bloom.

So I had a choice of the Clyst which was much easier to play and the S32 that had the higher quality of sound. The S32 was more expensive and I was very, very, very, very, very, very tempted by the Clyst. But I was also tempted a great deal by the Lowden as it just exuded class. I found myself taking a deep breath and going for the Lowden for an extra £360 (460 euros). It will be a Christmas 2014, 60th Birthday and 2015 Christmas present combined. Plus I'll be saving hard for another 7 months at least to pay for it. It is under the bed in it's case till Christmas. I can't help feeling I'm mad to spend so much on a guitar - it is maybe also too good for my ability level.
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It's quite a plain looking guitar - but I'd rather have the costs being for the build quality and the sound than any fancy finishes.
I'll upload further pictures and soundclips tomorrow evening.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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12bar
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Re: New Lowden

Post by 12bar »

Wow - congratulations. All I can say is :drool: :drool: :drool:
VikingBlues wrote: I can't help feeling I'm mad to spend so much on a guitar - it is maybe also too good for my ability level.
Don't think this way - it's your life and you deserve it!
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Blindboy
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Re: New Lowden

Post by Blindboy »

Lovely! :drool:
Lowden makes wonderful guitars, and I am a big fan of parlour guitars. They make brilliant fingerstyle blues guitars.
Looking forward to hearing it. :thumbsup:
"Throw yo' big leg over me Mama, I might not feel this good again!"
MichaelRobinson
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Re: New Lowden

Post by MichaelRobinson »

Well I understand that you had to dig deep into the treasure chest to get a Lowden.
I also understand that you were a little wobbly by laying out so much money.
One more thing. You have found a very good guitar and you nurture it, you will have much pleasure from it. It believes.
I guess you sit glued to your new friend, and test and test.

Take care of yourself
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

Cheers guys. :D

It was a long search and I had started to fear I'd find nothing. Oddly it's the first time I've ever tried an acoustic with a Sitka Spruce top where I've liked the sound - others I've tried have either sounded too bright or they've needed me to play them harder than I usually do to get a decent response.

From what I can tell Lowden do go to great lengths to maximise the responsiveness of their S series. This made the series particularly interesting to me because I play with a light touch. That means the guitar needs to be very responsive, and to do that the maker has to thickness the tonewoods on the body as thin as they can without risking structural collapse. A factory operation building guitars can't do this - they have to work to standard thicknesses which are set on the safe side to avoid warranty claims - so are generally overbuilt and not responsive enough for us wimpy players - but they can be great for the guys that dig in a bit when playing.

The "S" stands for small body, though it really is closer to OO size than it is to parlour. So it feels quite different to my go-to Tanglewood TW73 Parlour and also sounds very different. I think the TW73 will still get played though - it has it's own virtues and I think I was very lucky finding that particular TW73 - way more responsive than the usual.

A few more pictures:-
Body - Sitka Spruce with East Indian Rosewood Back and Sides
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Neck is Mahogany & Rosewood with an Ebony Fretboard - Gotoh Gold/Ebony 503 Tuners
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Very neat and tidy inside the body
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A few sizes:-
Upper Bout 260mm
Waist 222mm
Lower Bout 377mm
Body Depth at Tail 105mm
Nut Width 45mm

Sample sound-clips to follow in the next post.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

Many thanks to you for your encouragement that I've not done a totally stupid thing! :D

So ..... sound-clips. I did some rapid recordings when I got home - they are more than a bit rough and are only recorded on my little Yamaha Pocketrak portable recorder. The Pocketrak does a pretty good job but you'll have to wait a few months before I can do a proper recording that is closer to the real sound. You will notice I missed the strings on a number of occasions - not used to the wider nut. :roll:

I did these recordings so that I'd have something to be able to check on if at some time before Christmas I forget how good the Lowden was and get panicky. :yikes:

Links to Box.com - wav files to maximise quality of sound (if anyone has trouble with that size of file I can post mp3 links instead)
:music1: https://app.box.com/s/8yzfanu373x1d22b4ygk : Open G improv
:music1: https://app.box.com/s/zy4udrtsqjhv8l5tkit3 : DADGAD improv

Still can't quite believe that I've done this and nearly two weeks have gone by since then. :eye_rub:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: New Lowden

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

Congrats VB, that's a awesome guitar. The recordings sound very promising.
I didn't read you last post entirely before I went for the samples and was going to ask what microphone you used. I know the timbre of such a guitar has a much wider range. It's good enough as it is, so do leave that present in it's case under the bed :) No reason to get it out before Christmas my friend ( ghehehe)

+many VB
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

Thanks HBL. :thumbsup:

You're quite right about the recording. It was made with a Yamaha Pocketrak PR7 - a very small portable recorder.
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en ... nloads.jsp
Less than £100 for the whole thing - for the recorder and the built in condenser microphone. So for that price - yes, it'll not be able to pick up the full sound and dynamic range. It does have the advantage of being portable and recordings can be made anywhere. Remarkably good for the price .... but that price is very low.

There are some very remarkable things about guitars like this Lowden.
The sustain is incredible - it sings for a very long time - though this does lead to a need to be more careful with damping notes on some pieces of music.
The responsiveness is hugely impressive. Apparently George Lowden has deliberately designed this smaller body style guitar to be as responsive as possible to aid players with a lighter touch. This includes allowing the back of the guitar to be more responsive than the normally pretty rigid standard of acoustic guitar backs. The trick here is that the front and back need to be attuned to each other so they'll work together and not have a conflict in sounds. This aids projection of the sound but also according to Ervin Somogy (a very highly regarded acoustic guitar builder) this leads to something magical - which I can confirm as having heard myself.
Tonal Bloom! :drool:
This tonal bloom is particularly noticeable when playing a phrase which revolves around a single chord or compatible chords and there are open strings played early in the phrase. These earlier notes unless damped continue to mix and blend with the later notes and enhance the harmony of the phrase in a way that doesn't happen with my other guitars because at that point with them those initial sounds are fading / faded.

It seems that a major difference is being highlighted here between factory (over)built to a safe specification guitars, and handbuilt guitars where they have been built with an aim of optimum responsiveness. The parts of the responsive guitar can respond to each other, line up together after a short time in terms of their vibrations, and therefore appear to bloom in sound. This is not dis-similar to the what happens in this metronome synchronisation demo (around 3 3/4 minutes when the visual demo starts on this video):-
ADGmBtLJ6y4
The metronomes on a solid board are likened to the over-built guitar and with the board on the rollers is likened to the responsive guitar.

Whether this is correct or not I can confirm that tonal bloom is there on Lowdens in the way I haven't heard on the various higher end acoustics I've tried in the local shops. It is quite a subtle effect, but I'm sure it's one of the main reasons why I like the sound quality.

I did some tap tests on the soundboard / top when I had the borrowed Lowden. With this my Tanglewood TW45 to my ears came out way less responsive than the TW73 and the TW73 less responsive than the Lowden. Though there was a smaller gap between the TW73 and the S10 than the TW45 to TW73. I also noticed the Lowden was more responsive by a long way than the others when it came to tapping near the edge of the top. That difference also applied to the top near the neck just past the soundhole. The last thing I noticed was that there was very little difference on the Tanglewoods when the top of the body was tapped and the back of the body was either cushioned or not. With the Lowden there was a noticeable difference. Which showed the Lowden was (not a surprise!) the most responsive of the three, but also that the TW73 was much more responsiveness than theTW45 - I think I struck lucky with that particular TW73 - the one I tried in Stonehaven did not have that responsiveness. It also caused me to believe that there is more influence on the overall sound in the Lowden from the back of the body. I think this is only the case with finely tuned handbuilt guitars which is why I often see comments on forums about how back and sides don't make much difference to a guitars sound - that is true with the production line guitars when the back is built rigid and the guitar is generally overbuilt to a safe specification.

Sorry - I'm yapping on. I did months of research into this and I'm trying to condense it to a single post! :roll:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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vancouverois
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Re: New Lowden

Post by vancouverois »

Very nice guitar VB, congrats! :beer:
I guess when you feel acquiring such an instrument, I mean not a compulsive buy, it sounds like you're ready to go further in the musical world.
I once played on a friend's Lowden and although I am not that much into acoustics, I remember then that almost all the other acoustics sounded dull like being muffled after playing this one.
Jan 15th 2007
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

vancouverois wrote:Very nice guitar VB, congrats! :beer:
I guess when you feel acquiring such an instrument, I mean not a compulsive buy, it sounds like you're ready to go further in the musical world.
I once played on a friend's Lowden and although I am not that much into acoustics, I remember then that almost all the other acoustics sounded dull like being muffled after playing this one.
Thank you! :D
I feel like I'm going to have to raise my game to get the most out of this Lowden - hopefully I'm up to it. :fingerscrossed:
Certainly won't be able to blame my instrument for shortcomings in the music anymore. :whistle:
74 days to go till Christmas.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
MichaelRobinson
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Re: New Lowden

Post by MichaelRobinson »

If you are intersted in how the Lowden guitar is designed, Mr Lowden himself talks about that in this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLr8-vZGhc
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12bar
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Re: New Lowden

Post by 12bar »

If money was no issue at all fits perfect... :drool:
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

MichaelRobinson wrote:If you are intersted in how the Lowden guitar is designed, Mr Lowden himself talks about that in this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kLr8-vZGhc
Thanks Michael. I have lost track of which George Lowden videos I've seen - there are a lot, and I've seen a good many of them. I love listening to George Lowden talk guitars - the huge enthusiasm and joy he has in making them still comes across so strong after 40 years of building. I really envy someone who gets so much from their job.

There's a series of Lowden videos called "every guitar has a voice" which was fascinating and contained a lot of useful information and ideas that apply to all guitars not just Lowdens. So much of what he said in those videos I found made a lot of sense in what I was hearing when I was trying out guitars. Though it would be very easy to get carried away and go bankrupt with something more exotic and costly like a Redwood top and African Blackwood back and sides.
Here's the first three videos in that series which I found particularly useful (warning - can provoke extreme GAS attacks):-
On Tonewoods lov_ystdnUA
On Tonewoods 3rKXpCpoIEQ
On Body Shapes 6U-_j3oR6Fo This one really sold me on the idea of finding and trying an S shape even if it meant an overnight stay.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
MichaelRobinson
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Re: New Lowden

Post by MichaelRobinson »

If I whas able to play one Lowden as it should be played, I would start saving money to get one. guitar_fire:: ..... :drool:
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VikingBlues
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Re: New Lowden

Post by VikingBlues »

MichaelRobinson wrote:If I whas able to play one Lowden as it should be played, I would start saving money to get one. guitar_fire:: ..... :drool:
It was that sort of reservation about my own playing that made the decision to buy one a lot more difficult. :think:

It remains to be seen if I've bitten off more than I can chew. Maybe it'll help me become a better player. :fingerscrossed:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
MichaelRobinson
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Re: New Lowden

Post by MichaelRobinson »

VikingBlues wrote:

It remains to be seen if I've bitten off more than I can chew. Maybe it'll help me become a better player. :fingerscrossed:
I realy hope you have made youre mind up. I hope you learn more from hearing pure and nice tones. Let's hope for the best.
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