Advice from Strat players?

[nxsneil]

Weelie, Here's some (Crappy!) photo's of my latest project, US Strat body with Robert Cray Neck , yes I have set it up as hardtail, all bought from EBay total cost AUD$550

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[VikingBlues]

Nice hardtail there. I like the colour combination with the scratchplate and the body too. Nice change from the solid colour body with white scratchplate.

Would you agree with weelie that you get a stratty sound still with the hardtail?

[Blindboy]

The main negatives normally of a no-name neck is knowing if it's any good - with your recommendation that worry dissapears in a puff of smoke.

Keep in mind, I said "decent". I have never played on it, but it looks straight and the frets and fingerboard look OK, so it should play all right. It has a "fender" shaped headstock and should fit in any neck pocket without too much trouble. If memory serves me, I think it had a mahogany fretboard.

(edit)Got your PM... I'll put some wheels in motion. We'll talk.

Very nice Strat, nxsneil.

[oneeyedslide]

Hey Viking! Can't help on the "blender" function with the first tone pot. Interesting idea though. Think I'm gonna look into it.
I dedicated the lower pot to the bridge pickup and put both the neck and middle pickup on the other tone pot. Most people seem to wire the bridge together with the middle pickup. I just though a humbucker should have it's own tone pot. The 5-way switch I have wired normally like a standard strat. It does what it does pretty well.

I'm using the stock Affinity trem but I did block it. That is probably the cheapest bridge to start with. I imagine you'll be upgrading as you go anyway!

I'm sure with your thoughtful approach you'll come up with a knockout ax. I'm looking forward to updates.

[VikingBlues]

The main negatives normally of a no-name neck is knowing if it's any good - with your recommendation that worry dissapears in a puff of smoke.

Keep in mind, I said "decent". I have never played on it, but it looks straight and the frets and fingerboard look OK, so it should play all right. It has a "fender" shaped headstock and should fit in any neck pocket without too much trouble. If memory serves me, I think it had a mahogany fretboard.

(edit)Got your PM... I'll put some wheels in motion. We'll talk.

All sounds good - on my budget I'm not looking for perfection - playable is absolutely fine. I'll wait to hear from you. .

Oneeyedslide - thanks for the comments on the wiring and the trem.

do you have woodworking tools? A strat body wouldn't be too hard to make,

These are a few pics from my attempt at a strat/tele hybrid hardtail body. It was kiln dried mahogany, and was a tough bugger to saw, sand, and route. You will notice I do my woodworking outside (worbench is just out of camera shot) - that's a fun thing to do given the Scottish weather!

Early stages!

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routing done but needing finished

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finished & next to scale plan

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close up

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[oneeyedslide]

That first version must have had some awesome natural sustain. Where did you find a strap strong enough to hold it?

[Blindboy]

That is a nice looking slab of wood. Turned out pretty handsomly (is that a word?) too. Might try a grain filler before finishing next time.
I just talked to my Dad, and he will check to see how much it will cost to ship you that neck. By the way, it is a maple fretboard, not mahogany like I thought. I will PM you when I have information on shipping costs.
Dad is on a banjo hangout (kind of like 12bar.de, but for banjo players) and one of his good buddies is from northeastern Scotland. Small world huh?

[VikingBlues]

That first version must have had some awesome natural sustain. Where did you find a strap strong enough to hold it?

Just my tribute to Pablo Picasso and Cubism.

That is a nice looking slab of wood. Turned out pretty handsomly (is that a word?) too. Might try a grain filler before finishing next time.
I just talked to my Dad, and he will check to see how much it will cost to ship you that neck. By the way, it is a maple fretboard, not mahogany like I thought. I will PM you when I have information on shipping costs.
Dad is on a banjo hangout (kind of like 12bar.de, but for banjo players) and one of his good buddies is from northeastern Scotland. Small world huh?

"Slab" is right - it weighed a ton and required a lot of work to get the size down to normal body thickness given my lack of experience and skill - I think it was a pretty dense piece of wood too (from the lower part of a tree?) so weight was a problem issue - I can understand why chambering has come into fashion with the difficulties of getting traditional woods the right density and weight for a guitar body size and sound.

Agreed about the grain filler - to be honest after the time it took to shape / route the body I was so impatient to get on with it that I skipped out on some of the aspects of a proper finish. I think I'd also been given a false impression by my only other attempt at making a body - a piece of old pine table turned into a Jazz Bass body - that turned out so beatifully smooth and natural looking it worked with just very fine sanding. The pine was SOOOO much easier to work with than the mahogany and was effectively nearly zero cost too. With a pair of Wizard (a Welsh based pickup business) pickups it totally blew my cheap purchased bass (bought on a whim on e-bay after a drink or two) out of the water. My pine bass needed a $350 bass to beat it when I upgraded.

Maple fretboards are fine too - playing wise and appearance wise. If anything I marginally prefer the look but that's not too important - good sound and decent playing action are the main goals for me. The combination of body colour and fretboard can influence the choice of pickguard purely on a looks basis though. Thanks again for all this Blindboy - I will keep an eye on my inbox.

Funny that with the North East Scotland banjo player connection. We do have quite a tradition of music in Scotland, although it's (in my view) tarnished a bit by some of the stuff that caters for the tourism industry. More recently Ian Anderson, Average White Band, Maggie Bell, David Byrne, Alex Harvey (if you want real performance art see his live version of "Next" [youtube]zqx5j-FuqeI[/youtube] RIP Alex - one unique performer, but maybe an acquired taste?), and of course his brother Les Harvey (Stone the Crows) also RIP, Mark Knopfler, Mogwai, Frankie Miller, Gerry Rafferty, Simple Minds, K T Tunstall, Malcolm & Angus Young, are a few that spring to mind mentally skimming through the alphabet. Maybe we should apologise for the Bay City Rollers though. I still remember one of my most intense musical experiences was at a huge gathering of pipe bands in the highlands, and physically feeling the vibrations smacking into your body from the drums and the emotions raised by that many pipes at once - a real gut feeling from the music - you could see in that instant how they could be used as a tool fo encouraging soldiers to "go for it". I've only ever had that physical / emotional impact as a listner to music once before at a performance of Shostakovich 11 - same thing maybe with the physical impact of percussion and also in that case the pulse rate going up with the crescendo of the music (I don't think I'll ever experience that again) - I thoght rock bands were loud but after the Shostakovich I could barely hearthe traffic on the street outside afterwards.

Sorry - rambling on and on - an attack of the reminiscences there - totally off topic!

[VikingBlues]

I'm sure with your thoughtful approach you'll come up with a knockout ax. I'm looking forward to updates.

The planning phase is the fun - anything is possible in the imagination.

Then the buying phase has the budgetary constraints kicking in - less fun.

Then the building phase has the limits of your building ability and limits of quality of materials you can afford kicking in - less fun again.

I'm rather thankful that the playing phase comes after that.

[vancouverois]

I have a Squier Tele Custom with P90 that had a string through body and hardtail bridge.
At the time this guitar was a basis for some "custom project", I ended up carving a comfort
contour at the back, replacing the PU's, routing the body to accomodate for a vintage strat
bridge with the big inertia block and then a whole refinishing job.

I guess the best mod I've done is replacing the bridge, it brought some clarity to the overall
guitar tone. The guitar seems to be more alive/resonant with a singing sustain it didn't have
before.
I think that a "blocked" tremolo bridge, in my case 3 springs and set up flush to the body
seems to sound better than the original hardtail. Well it certainly is a matter of taste and its
difficult to compare.

Please note I first replaced the PU's before modding the bridge, so it leads me to the point
the bridge mod really improved something.

[VikingBlues]

I have a Squier Tele Custom with P90 that had a string through body and hardtail bridge.
At the time this guitar was a basis for some "custom project", I ended up carving a comfort
contour at the back, replacing the PU's, routing the body to accomodate for a vintage strat
bridge with the big inertia block and then a whole refinishing job.

I guess the best mod I've done is replacing the bridge, it brought some clarity to the overall
guitar tone. The guitar seems to be more alive/resonant with a singing sustain it didn't have
before.
I think that a "blocked" tremolo bridge, in my case 3 springs and set up flush to the body
seems to sound better than the original hardtail. Well it certainly is a matter of taste and its
difficult to compare.

Please note I first replaced the PU's before modding the bridge, so it leads me to the point
the bridge mod really improved something.

That is some interesting information vancouverois, and that looks like a really good job you've made of the guitar.

P90s on a Tele is a combination that you feel could be a great combination. I thought one of the contributing factors to the failings of the strat / tele hybrid I built was that it had a hard tail and no string through body - having seen what you've said it's maybe a stage on from where I thought with your experiment of going from string through to blocked trem.

I'm finding myself coming down in favour of the idea of having a trem set up and then having the option of maybe trying a block on it if I don't like it. But, if I do go for the trem option, I think on this first proper go at doing a real strat I'll maybe not go the making my own body route (biting off too much too soon, especially with the extra routing and precison of measurements for a trem too) - maybe I'll leave that for attempt number two when I'll have a proper example of the way the body should be to work from.

I've reached one of those not clear cut possible decision times - there are two bodies I quite like the look of from a supplier I'd trust but the one I most like the look of which is sunburst cherry (a bit like the Richie Sambora model but with a flame top) is light ash, and from what i can see light ash is even brighter for tone than alder, and I was already only just convinced that I would manage with the brightness of alder. The other body is basswood, but is just a solid colour and not as well finished, although any of the "iffy" finish is only really in evidence around the routings, which will of course be hidden by the scratchplate. I have the feeling from the sum of everything I've read over the last few days that basswood isn't really a negative for a strat sound, although it is prone to dings (not a problem).

I think if either body was alder I'd have no reservations. At least with this supplier i know that any questions will be answered honestly and with proper knowledge - I'm a bit wary of e-bay when I'm short on the product knowledge myself, and there are a lot less businesses in the UK selling parts now than a couple of years ago, so I'm finding the choice to be quite limited.

Thanks for all the info everyone - you have been helping to clarify my thoughts.

[Brutus]

Strats are great fun and relativley easy to customize or build from ground up.

All very good points raised so far, but I would recommend sticking with the traditional SSS. Check these sample clips out to give you an idea of some nice pup options http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Sound-Clips-W60.aspx although my favorite Fender 57/62's ain't there.

For me perhaps the most important point re strats is the fretboard, maple vs rosewood, not just the feel but sound. Still can't decide which one I like best after 10 years of .....so I have one of each and even swap em around some. For some reason I almost always play neck pup with the rosewoods and bridge or bridge/middle with the maples. A lot of people say they can't hear the difference between the two but for me it's always stood out.

[weelie]

I think the freboard can be a tone, feel and whatever issue to the player, but the listened doesn't hear the difference. I personally would go for maple for spanky sweet cleans a la Mark Knopfler or country, and rosewood board for everything else. So, I usually have the rw board ones as I feel they are "more versatile" and less sticky/slippery to play... plus one piece maple necks can bend out of shape in a few years.

As for SSS pickups, I think I'd like to have two strats: one with low output pickups (most likely maple board), one with rocking over wound single coils.

But in all actually, I am always on the verge of selling my strat. Strats are easy to get along with, but I sort of love and hate them. I feel can play everything with one, but it most always doesn't sounds as good as something else would. So my current strat is a cheapo, that is setup to play perfectly, and is noiseless. Not my fave guitar, but it works ok for most things.

I usually play only neck or bridge+neck. Also fiddle around with the tone knob, so get a bit darker tone. The 2 and 4 positions I don't really play (I did when I had a MIJ 50s strat).

That two p90 tele above looks sublime!

[VikingBlues]

Well - things are starting to take shape.

I've managed to locate a good price and quality (I think) used alder squier strat in red. I'm slightly suprised I liked the red - normally I find it a bit too much "in your face" but on this body it looked good. It has had a 6 screw vintage style bridge which is straightforward enough to duplicate, but also has had a 35mm block, which the seller felt would not give as good sustain / sound as a bigger block. Given the 41mm cavity size I suppose I'm safe up to 40mm, although I'd like to hear if anyone thinks thats either OK or too risky. I found a supplier in the UK with 38mm ones, but they're only in black, although they have plenty of 40mm models in chrome. So I'm also wondering whether to go black on the bridge and pickups, as a change from the usual chrome.

But then I'm also wondering red body and black scratchplate? Hmmmm - decisions!

EDIT : I've just got advice from an on-line seller - the 40mm block would be too big due to how the spring hook parts would stick out at the back.

Specification:
the body measures just over 41mm in depth (measured near to the jack socket area)
the neck pocket is just over 56mm wide
it weighs 4lbs 3 1/8ozs (1.903Kg).

Other Information:
It has screw holes for an 8 screw scratchplate.
It has had a 6 screw vintage Strat bridge, rather than 2 point.
25 1/2" scale length
The body is routed to accomodate a Humbucker, Humbucker, Humbucker (HSH) configuration as well as the typical 3 single coil setup.
Distance between the outside two drilled holes for the bridge 53mm
Trem block was 35mm, body is 41mm deep

Thanks for the sample clips Brutus - I think I'm coming down more and more in favour of the S/S/S the more I think about this project. I'll also just maybe take a punt on Irongear pickups as I'm on a very tight budget. They're very keen prices but seem to get well reviewed and the soundclips / videos I've seen don't discourage me. One day in the future I can maybe go upmarket, and maybe on a guitar which is overall higher spec for everything. Any of the fender style guitars I've played, I've tended to prefer the maple fretboard - don't know whether that's been feel or sound or no good reason.

Oddly enough Weelie I'm coming down in support of maple and low output pickups - just the combination you mentioned. I don't see the logic of high output for my playing style - slow, clean and mellow.

[DavieGarden]

I know this reply is quite a bit late but I've just really joined this forum. If you've still not selected pick ups for your Strat type guitar you should consider sticking with single coils but try and get a hold of Fender Texas Special pick ups, they are awsome and the guitar will sing.

[VikingBlues]

I know this reply is quite a bit late but I've just really joined this forum. If you've still not selected pick ups for your Strat type guitar you should consider sticking with single coils but try and get a hold of Fender Texas Special pick ups, they are awsome and the guitar will sing.

Thanks for the advice DG. I have progressed past this stage (see the Strat Project Diary thread) but it is possible that a pup upgrade will arise at some point.

Due to budget constraints I have not been able to go for the "real" Fender parts (at "real" Fender prices ), so it currently has Wilkinson "Vintage" single coils, which have proved far better than I expected. I have tried to make sure the majority of the budget went on body and neck, as they give a nice solid base for future upgrades to hardware when finance permits.