Bending & Vibrato

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MikeJackal
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Bending & Vibrato

Post by MikeJackal »

As we are all on our ever expanding guitar quest I was hoping I could get some advice off you fine folks.
When it comes to string bending I think I am pretty proficient, I can hit the right amount of bend nearly all of the time with any finger and even with 10 gauge strings I can perform 2 step bends easily enough.
Then vibrato, I have a fast and a slow vibrato. I tend to do the small bends of the string technique rather than the side to side way. As for BB's way, forget it, my hand doesn't even bend that way. But still my vibrato is acceptable to me at this stage in my playing journey.
Here's where I struggle, combining the two. Do you have any advice on performing strings bends then adding some vibrato to it. Usually when I attempt it, it either ends up sounding awful or the strings slips and I lose the bend.
"You Only Live But Once, When Your Dead Your Done...So Let The Good Times Roll" - B.B. King
"I'm So Lonesome I Don't Even Have Me No Friend, I've Done So Much Crying Will I Ever Laugh Again" - Peter Green
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Blackhorse
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Blackhorse »

Like most things, it just takes practice. I find that when I'm adding vibrato to a note, I just use my fretting finger to achieve it, but after a bend my fingers are fully extended, so I use my whole hand to create vibrato, keeping my fretting finger fairly rigid. Another nice technique after a bend is to start the vibrato small and gentle, and gradually exaggerate the vibrato as the note fades.

If you have a guitar with a tremolo (whammy bar) you can use this to achieve vibrato while holding the bend steady with your fingers, I think this is a more difficult style, but I'm sure I remember reading about either Clapton or Gilmour sometimes doing it this way as it was "easier." Whatever works for you.

Hope this helps!
LeftyBlues
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by LeftyBlues »

When you do your bends do you use one finger or multiple fingers? For the bends that involve my ring finger, I put my other 1 or 2 fingers (middle and index) on the 2 frets behind the ring finger fret and it allows me to have a good grip on the string. Once your bend is set, you can just do what ever vibrato technique you feel comfortable with.
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MikeJackal
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by MikeJackal »

Most of the "significant bends", (that it full step bends or ones that aren't being used to accentuate a note with a single finger) I do with the ring finger with the other two fingers for stability yes. I had another go earlier at this after posting and found that it is more a case that I am not putting enough muscle behind my finger to bend it the extra small amount needed in order to create some vibrato. Of course this can only be achieved over time and I'll have to work at it and build up the muscle memory to be good at it.
"You Only Live But Once, When Your Dead Your Done...So Let The Good Times Roll" - B.B. King
"I'm So Lonesome I Don't Even Have Me No Friend, I've Done So Much Crying Will I Ever Laugh Again" - Peter Green
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MojoJim
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by MojoJim »

I find this is a really hard thing to do. I studied HBL's old tune, Noodle Soup, where he opens with a slow bend and a beautiful vibrato on the end of the note. I've listened and played, listened and played, slowed it down and played, etc. - trying to match his technique - with some limited success.

I'd love to know some special technique but so far it seems to be strength, control and practice. When I was learning bends I got lots of advice on technique from the folks on the forum. So now I generally use three fingers - the first to drive the bend, one to add strength to the first finger and one to supress noises from other strings. Works great and is generally automatic now. But vibrato on the end of a bend is still a challenge.

The posts so far have some good suggestions which I will try. Other ideas will be readily absorbed.
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12bar
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by 12bar »

Strength, control and practice is the key, like MJ said. With the lack of practice my bend vibrato is getting worse, it takes some time to be back on the usual level.

The technique I use, especially for the ring finger, is bending by turning the wrist, the way EC did during the 60's. This way allows me to bend and create a vibrato by bending above and below the actual pitch. Maybe I'll try to active my cam on Win7 again to show it, as I don't find a good youtube one.

Edit: :wall: I should have known that there is a good one - I tabbed those licks a while ago for http://12bar.de/solocream.php#farewell

Look at 2:44:

p4vxOoSS5RY

Another one showing BB:

46v0coC4q0k
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Blindboy
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Blindboy »

Pretty well covered by previous posters... Bend from the wrist, use several fingers for strength, practice a lot. :thumbsup:
One thing I do... inspired by Albert King... is bend the third (G) string "down" or pull it instead of push it... that allows me to get that big AK vibrato at the end of a big AK bend.
"Throw yo' big leg over me Mama, I might not feel this good again!"
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MikeJackal
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by MikeJackal »

Thanks for the advice guys, I will try all your suggestions and work on them and see which one comes out as the easiest.
"You Only Live But Once, When Your Dead Your Done...So Let The Good Times Roll" - B.B. King
"I'm So Lonesome I Don't Even Have Me No Friend, I've Done So Much Crying Will I Ever Laugh Again" - Peter Green
Angus
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Angus »

MikeJackal wrote:Thanks for the advice guys, I will try all your suggestions and work on them and see which one comes out as the easiest.

I'm also on a quest to improve my vibrato - I would love to hear what Paul Kossoff said to Eric when Eric asked him how he achieved his vibrato when Free were supporting Blind Faith. People say from the wrist, but I think they mean from the forearm really, its like when you turn a door handle the wrist is actually fairly static in relation to the forearm - if that makes sense. I get my thumb locked in over the top of the neck, but apart from that only my finger tips are in proper contact with the guitar when I use my index finger to vibrato, or if I use my ring finger to bend and vibrato then the side of my index finger's knuckle is in contact with the underside of the neck too.. And obviousy the fingers are kept rigid. I've been using a hand exerciser to try and strengthen my hand/forearm for this - I'm fairly sure it has helped as I've made some progress over this period, but caution should be exercised with any exercising. :)

Let us know how you get on, I can use all the help I can get.
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12bar
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by 12bar »

Angus wrote:I would love to hear what Paul Kossoff said to Eric when Eric asked him how he achieved his vibrato when Free were supporting Blind Faith.
Paul finally met his hero on that Blind Faith tour. During our interview in 1976, he also told me of that momentous meeting.
“Clapton came up to me and asked ‘How the hell do you do that?’ talking about my vibrato. “And I said, ‘You must be joking!’”
http://popdose.com/caught-on-tape-paul- ... n-at-last/
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VikingBlues
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by VikingBlues »

12bar wrote:
Angus wrote:I would love to hear what Paul Kossoff said to Eric when Eric asked him how he achieved his vibrato when Free were supporting Blind Faith.
Paul finally met his hero on that Blind Faith tour. During our interview in 1976, he also told me of that momentous meeting.
“Clapton came up to me and asked ‘How the hell do you do that?’ talking about my vibrato. “And I said, ‘You must be joking!’”
http://popdose.com/caught-on-tape-paul- ... n-at-last/
Great link - thanks for posting it. :thumbsup:

I have seen it said that other members of Free had to tell "Koss" (who was very self-doubting about his own playing) that Eric wasn't taking the mickey and really wanted to know.

Though it's always saddens me hugely to be reminded of what happened to such a huge talent. Essentially I suppose a major part of the "Koss" playing could fall into the "less is more" descripion, but as for the vibrato ... "huge is more"? I keep meaning to try to watch for how he played with Free when I look at the DVD films I have of his live playing, but I just get sucked into the musical and emotional quality of it all and I forget to look.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
Angus
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Angus »

12bar wrote:
Angus wrote:I would love to hear what Paul Kossoff said to Eric when Eric asked him how he achieved his vibrato when Free were supporting Blind Faith.
Paul finally met his hero on that Blind Faith tour. During our interview in 1976, he also told me of that momentous meeting.
“Clapton came up to me and asked ‘How the hell do you do that?’ talking about my vibrato. “And I said, ‘You must be joking!’”
http://popdose.com/caught-on-tape-paul- ... n-at-last/

Nice article - as a big Koss fan, I'm familiar with that interview and there's a lot of interesting stuff in the full version. Its funny, and kind of interesting that Kossoff is asked if he thinks Clapton can still play, and he relates how he saw him recently, and after keeping a fairly low profile during the performance somebody handed Clapton an Explorer which he played "Bell Bottom Blues" on and in Koss' affectionate words, "That bastard is better than he ever was!" It seems like that has never left Eric, there's always people that seem to have the attitude of "if he's so good, why isn't he ramming it down our necks, then?!!".
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VikingBlues
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by VikingBlues »

Well - so much for checking DVD film footage of Paul Kossoff with Free to get ideas on the vibrato technique.

Invariably whenever he solos the camera either bizarrely goes to show Paul Rogers, Andy Fraser or Simon Kirke, or if it does go to Paul Kossoff it's either close ups of his face or the camera is moving or cutting to different angles so much you really see damn all of his technique. :wall:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
Angus
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Angus »

VikingBlues wrote:Well - so much for checking DVD film footage of Paul Kossoff with Free to get ideas on the vibrato technique.

Invariably whenever he solos the camera either bizarrely goes to show Paul Rogers, Andy Fraser or Simon Kirke, or if it does go to Paul Kossoff it's either close ups of his face or the camera is moving or cutting to different angles so much you really see damn all of his technique. :wall:

I think there's a glimpse to be had here and there - on the Granada Television "Doing their Thing" footage on the songs All Right Now and Mr Big, and the version of Fire and Water from Germany, not the analytical diagramatic footage we would want, but a hell of a lot better than nowt. :)
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VikingBlues
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by VikingBlues »

Angus wrote:
VikingBlues wrote:Well - so much for checking DVD film footage of Paul Kossoff with Free to get ideas on the vibrato technique.

Invariably whenever he solos the camera either bizarrely goes to show Paul Rogers, Andy Fraser or Simon Kirke, or if it does go to Paul Kossoff it's either close ups of his face or the camera is moving or cutting to different angles so much you really see damn all of his technique. :wall:

I think there's a glimpse to be had here and there - on the Granada Television "Doing their Thing" footage on the songs All Right Now and Mr Big, and the version of Fire and Water from Germany, not the analytical diagramatic footage we would want, but a hell of a lot better than nowt. :)
Yeah - you're right Angus - I do so wish it was more than just glimpses though. The Granada TV segment is one of my favourite live music recordings of all time - Free all really seemed so focussed at that gig (despite the pretty straight-laced audience) - it leaves me so sad there was not more recorded as an historical document of such a incredible musical force (before the more troubled times). The guitar and bass work combined on Mr Big is wonderful and you can see how much intensity Koss is putting into even the chordal work when Andy Fraser's doing his lead bass part. :pray:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
Angus
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by Angus »

VikingBlues wrote:
Angus wrote:
VikingBlues wrote:Yeah - you're right Angus - I do so wish it was more than just glimpses though. The Granada TV segment is one of my favourite live music recordings of all time - Free all really seemed so focussed at that gig (despite the pretty straight-laced audience) - it leaves me so sad there was not more recorded as an historical document of such a incredible musical force (before the more troubled times). The guitar and bass work combined on Mr Big is wonderful and you can see how much intensity Koss is putting into even the chordal work when Andy Fraser's doing his lead bass part. :pray:

Yes, I think although it sounds like too simple an explanation, but what they had (as well as an abundance of talent) was genuine committment, in terms of surviving, probably too much, in Kossoff's case.

I love that performance too especially "I'll be Creepin'" and the demonstration of how effectively Koss could control his tone from his guitar in mid song.

On the dvd I don't know if you've see the footage (without audio!!) that Simon kossoff shot, but it looks like the band appear much more relaxed (still fully committed) but seemingly in a much mellower mood. And legend has it that they were filmed at Randwick Racecourse at their last gig in Australia, the footage for that would be a great find.
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VikingBlues
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Re: Bending & Vibrato

Post by VikingBlues »

Angus wrote:I love that performance too especially "I'll be Creepin'" and the demonstration of how effectively Koss could control his tone from his guitar in mid song.
I'll Be Creepin on this performance, for me, outdoes the studio album version by a big margin. Very subtle playing by Koss on this one, and some very delicate touches - not that he doesn't crank it up a bit for the solo! Interesting to see the way his left hand snaps down on the strings for control (e.g. between 1:19 and 1:35). Though I'm not sure what Andy Fraser is staring up at near the beginning of the song - a moth up by the lights maybe?

odLL_s3UJgs
Angus wrote:On the dvd I don't know if you've see the footage (without audio!!) that Simon kossoff shot, but it looks like the band appear much more relaxed (still fully committed) but seemingly in a much mellower mood. And legend has it that they were filmed at Randwick Racecourse at their last gig in Australia, the footage for that would be a great find.
Not noticed that bit - I'll have a look. ANY find of film footage of them would be great!!
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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