Turnarounds... I am no good with them

[weelie]

I know a few turnarounds, but I don't really know how to play them in time.

That's why I played this track yesterday, the rest was just monkeying around. You can hear that my basic D7-shape turnaround in E is a bit shaky. And that was a separate dub, actually, as I couldn't play it first take as the end to the rhythm track. http://www.box.net/shared/jk7i74zoem

Here's one take from last year, with a basic turnaround in A: http://www.box.net/shared/eg72de72ja
(some how it just doesn't roll)

Any tips?
So how are you turnarounds, do you know a lot of them, or stick to a few?

[Blackhorse]

Hi Weelie,

I just had a listen to both those tracks, I don't think you have a major problem with turnarounds. The turnaround in the one you recorded yesterday sounds fine, although the timing overall is a little shaky. Does the beat you're using include a hi-hat? I couldn't hear it, and that leaves a long time in a slow blues between the snare and the bass drum for you to lose the feel. Add a hi-hat to keep you moving in time.

On Key to the Highway your overall rhythm sounded better, but you slowed down every time you played the turnaround - I guess you weren't comfortable playing it? That's a sign that you need to practice the bit that you slow down on until it feels natural. If this was recorded a year ago, your turnarounds have improved a lot.

[weelie]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes the rhythm on that track has some shaky parts (it was a less than 30min job). Actually played first just chords, then added on to that, first turnaround, the "lead" bits, then the extra "walking bass" thing, the back beat chord stabs. The drum beat was a simple one from the Boss loop pedal played all with. Could try with a more complex drum track too.

The other other one is from last fall. Of course it was from a different setting, playing live (at home) with a friend. While yesterday's thing was just me, and the turnaround was a second take.

But, yes, need to practice. If only I had all the time I need! Moving back and forth with lead and rhythm just feels so difficult... as does keeping it all funky in the positive way!

[cruisemates]

I recommend getting in the habit of recording a solid drum track first (a metronome at the least) and always practice to one as well. You will find it spurs you on to making your fingers learn to find the right spots.

After you record a drum tack (just do a loop and let it run, or record 1 bar and copt/paste is twelve times total for one "chorus"). Then follow that up with a rhythm guitar just so you know where you are. For me, bass comes next and lead guitar last.

You will get turnarounds in no time - keep practicing.

[weelie]

Thanks for the reply, CM!

Yeah, I am practicing to a drum beat. Too lazy to do bass guitar lines, though.

What I do with precious little practice time, I play through my Boss RC-2 loop pedal, so the beat is from there. 15min here or there, not every day. Didn't use to play to a beat at all... and it shows.

Here's my messy practice from today:
http://www.box.net/shared/vp8fjr79yi
In E again, dubbed the regular turnaround thing (sorry for the amp flab at the same time, had max sustain for the telecaster, and the fretted B at the end of the "solo" tries to sustain forever)

[weelie]

Practicing again... this one is a simple turnaround, as it is a clear one bar long:
http://www.box.net/shared/gqhenqyax5

Here I am trying the same as in the first post above (8 bar blues in A,now electric):
http://www.box.net/shared/n907oat2k1

[cruisemates]

weelie - what you need to do is find the V-note. Here is the A pentatonic scale

a c d e g

the V-note is the E

so, when in the turnaround play that note as the center if your riff. I usually do something like

1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 --------------------8-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 --------------9-----------9-----7------9--------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- - - - - - - -V chord - - - - - - - - - - - - --
or

1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 -------8----8---8--------------------------7----7---7---------------------------------------------
1 -------9----9---9----9---7----5(hold)----7----7---7-----5----7----5-----------------------------------------------
1 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------7------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------V-chord -- - - - - - - - - -- - - - -IV chord - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -I chord

here are the E notes in the scale

1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5-----------
1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5 ----8--------------------------------------
1 -------------------------------------------------5-----7 (bu)9 ------------------------------------------------------
1 --------------------------------5------7----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 --------------5---- 7 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 -5-----8----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the turnaround you can even switch to the e-pent scale for a second like this:

1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------8----------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------7----9-----------9----7----9---------------------------------
1 ----------------5---7---9-----------------------------------------------------------------
1 ----------7---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these notes are still in the A-scale except the (B) is not in the A BLUES scale, but it certainly fits in the Key of A.

[weelie]

Thanks!

To me it's not primarily problem of note choice, really. It seems you can move between the V chord and I chord in a multitude of ways... but I have the problem with timing and rhythm. A Robert Johnson style turnaround often starts somewhere in the bar 11 (assuming it's a 12 bar blues) and then ends somewhere halfway through the bar 12... so it's kinda difficult for me to time that...

[davidvg]

I have the same problem so I'm very interested in this post

[weelie]

I have the same problem so I'm very interested in this post

Thanks, David! I will post some of the turnarounds I know... but how to make them really work... I don't know... I am no good in that! I am ok in just hammering the chords all through the 12 bars, but turnarounds, not. I realizedin the above electric 8-bar blues, I played the standard tunraround in the wrong key. but it sounds quite ok, as I played it in E, while the songs was in A... close enough, eh...!

Here I played a turnaround of sorts, but don't remember what i played: http://www.box.net/shared/dvnb0inv5k

[Golfxzq]

Weelie... I cam across this article on line from the Jan 2010 Premier Guitar mag and thought about your posts. This is not exactly a turn around, but I thought you (and maybe others) might find it interesting. Some of the endings include arpeggiation techniques and bends... some of the recent topics of discussion on this forum.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... usion.aspx