Chord identification

Techniques, licks, tabs, chords, tutorials
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bbmuddywolf
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Chord identification

Post by bbmuddywolf » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:55 pm

I have been playing guitar now for almost 2 years mostly learning from online teachers. I am starting to learn lead and soloing techniques for blues. I have two questions that I hope someone can help me with:

1. I have learned the 5 minor pentatonic shapes and I keep reading that certain licks sound better in one shape over another. That confuses me as obviously each shape has the same notes in it, so should any lick not be able to be played in any scale shape with the same sound?

2. Also is there a better way to determine the chord tone of the rhythm progression--wether it is major, minor or dominant 7? My ear does not pick up the "happy" or "sad" description typically used to define the keys. Is this just a matter of better ear training?

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12bar
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Re: Chord identification

Post by 12bar » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:06 pm

:welcome: to the forum!

Regarding your questions:

1) Strictly they should sound the same, but they don't. There are several reasons. The strings have different diameters, they vibrate different, they are over different pickups positions, they are different to bend, just to name a few things. If you've already learned some shapes just try a lick at different positions. Some players prefer playing near the headstock, some around the 12th fret, some on higher frets... even the finger used can change the sound.

2) Ear training is essential, use your guitar to determine chords you hear. Listen as much as you can, it will come with time. Most people who grew up with pop/rock music would describe a minor chord as sad. People with other music (eastern, african etc.) may feel different. That's the key to Blues: we play minor pentatonic over major chords.

You may read some basics in my tutorial from the links above. :wink:

fenson
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Re: Chord identification

Post by fenson » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:03 pm

A pretty good demonstration of how licks sound different as played at different positions...
https://youtu.be/2yNwIKhneEA
hope this helps

IF
"Don't be afraid by wrong notes, it doesn't exist" Miles Davis.

bbmuddywolf
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Re: Chord identification

Post by bbmuddywolf » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:40 am

Thanks for your replies. The video was very interesting and helpful.

My reason for asking about chord identification came from other reading sources saying that minor pent could be played over minor chords, major pent could be played over either major or minor chords and over dominant 7 chords the mixylodian (don't think I got that spelling right) scale worked best--as would the BB box--all due to tone clashes and similarities.

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12bar
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Re: Chord identification

Post by 12bar » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:56 pm

Mixolydian is often used because it contains notes from major and minor pentatonic and fits to the notes of a dominant 7th chord as well...

fenson
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Re: Chord identification

Post by fenson » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:11 pm

You're welcome bbmuddywolf :D
That's the old good recipe: "Learn From the Masters"...

Ok Let's focus on chords identification...

As 12bar said, training your ears eventually is the best way...
Don't be afraid, a good training always give good results, unless you're deaf indeed :lol: ( :shy: sorry... can"t stop myself sometimes)

Ok, Let's be kidding some more...
One guy owing a fruit named computers company came out with "Think different"...
Just like EC think of its own to play Freddy's licks (the video), please consider to think about scales out of "boxes" or "shapes"!
(starting from 3 fret on A string, up to the fourteen fret you got C major, C minor, C pentatonic etc... on a single string :think: )

Give a try at harmonizing scales! (pretty useful to play double stops...)
If you wanna go soloing:
- Stick to the melody of the song you're playing... (listen EC/Freddy/Greeny...)
- Think of the tonality of the song:
It's because of the melody of the song itself that you've got a chords sequence or another... The harmony is self-contained into the melody...
- At this point, you don't need worrying about the pentatonic nor the mixolydian to play over a C (F, G or Bb) Blues...
You just got every things needed as you just "play-with" the C major scale, eventually sometimes using a flat third, fifth or seventh to put some more blue in your phrases... In case you're still playing over a C blues indeed :cool:

Just to help
IF
"Don't be afraid by wrong notes, it doesn't exist" Miles Davis.

bbmuddywolf
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Re: Chord identification

Post by bbmuddywolf » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:14 pm

Thanks Fenson. Your approach is definitely a little different than typical instructions. I will play around with it and see what I can do with it. I am playing over just instrumental backing tracks so there is no pre-determined melody line, simply a set rhythm.

fenson
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Re: Chord identification

Post by fenson » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:42 am

Hi muddywolf,

Stay tuned, I'm going for few gigs with friends so it mights take few days before you got a better answer ;-)
Just a tip for the day: sing what you're listening and want to play and try to play it (think to tab by the way, it helps indeed...) ;-)

Later,
IF
"Don't be afraid by wrong notes, it doesn't exist" Miles Davis.

bbmuddywolf
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Re: Chord identification

Post by bbmuddywolf » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:38 pm

I don''t play for people and certainly don't sing, but I like the suggestion. I do find that I sometimes have melodic lines running in my head where I would like go but just wasn't sure how to get them out.

I have been tabbing some licks as I learn them so I have a record of what I've done--they are just not originals yet.

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12bar
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Re: Chord identification

Post by 12bar » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:39 pm

bbmuddywolf wrote:I have been tabbing some licks as I learn them so I have a record of what I've done--they are just not originals yet.
I did this with complete albums, it helped a lot. :thumbsup:

fenson
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Re: Chord identification

Post by fenson » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:17 pm

OK, finally got a moment to search my saved bookmarks...
So to clarify my "approach", better than any longer bla bla bla...
Another lesson from another master:
*** https://youtu.be/417MBwzCEzU ***
where we start with a "Do Ré Mi" motive (a major scale whatever the key is), then we go further with an arpeggio (notice the dynamic) ending with an harch "double stop", walk down the pentatonic (once again, the dynamic!) for a while...

Another great stop you might consider useful:
*** https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... freload=10 ***
Just pointing the #1 to #5 blues lessons

Hope this helps
:beer:
IF
"Don't be afraid by wrong notes, it doesn't exist" Miles Davis.

bbmuddywolf
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Chord identification

Post by bbmuddywolf » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:50 am

Hope the gigs went well for you.

I love watching Papastache, he makes me giggle. Very interesting videos. It will take me some time to process the information but it does look helpful. It always surprises me how easy it seems to be when watching those who have paid their dues.

Thanks again for the links.

fenson
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Re: Chord identification

Post by fenson » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:54 am

Yep! Pleasing gig! Playing some chamber music! Thanks :D

As Papastache says in one of his video, he is going to "show" you how to play Hey Joe and he eventually did (didn't watch the entire vid).

But my purpose wasn't about how to play something (a lick, or a whole song either - (considering your previous question :D )) but about "how to decide" what to play over one or another chord (therefore over the chords change)... And that's exactly what Tim Pierce was demonstrating in the first video.

With the 5 clips set, I was trying to point out how you can find your own way to do the same over any chords sequence:
1 -How you can hum kinda melodic line (a theme or motive for your solo) out of the 5 notes of a pentatonic scale.
2 -How you can stick to this little "theme" and use it through the next 12 bar of your up coming "lead part" to "build" "your" solo (but not be playing a bunch of learned licks).
3 -How the notes relate one to another, how they relate to "each chord" of the "chords sequence"... (Sorry for all these ""... just to emphasis on some key points :D )
Please, keep watching at these 5 clips, practice all this material, step by step...

Also don't forget, as any language music is made for ears (to be listened) not for eyes... At some point, "music might considered as the art of organinzing noises"!
So listen (ears training) & tab (might be a good starting point to get more confident with basis of harmony)!

At the end once you've got the notes, as Stevie says (first link of the collection :lol: ) according with EC, you "may" play these notes anywhere you want (tone quest, more natural fingering...) all over the fretboard :D ;-)

Hope this helps,

IF
"Don't be afraid by wrong notes, it doesn't exist" Miles Davis.

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