Major Scale: get confortably

[redrooster]

Well, i write my first post talking about major scale. The first scale I learned was the pentatonic, in first position (tipical) and them i moved around the neck and i learned all the fretboard, i added some sweet notes, and other notes. So, with the pentatonic i haven't got any problem. But with the major scale, i don't know why, but i don't get confortably. I learned major C in all the fretboard, but i can't figure out good phrases and riff's, i don't know why. Someone can help me with it?

thanks a lot!!!

[weelie]

What kinda backing would you use playing those licks?

Maybe you ought to try major pentatonic first, that's major counterpart of minor pentatonic. Or then mixolydian (as the maj7 of major scale is often a sour note).

[redrooster]

weelie, i've been out a few days, sorry!! I haven't got any particular backing, but i think that to learn major pentatonic will be a sure method to get comfortable with this scale. I believe that the major problem is that i've been always playing with minor pentatonic and minor natural, and now it's like i've got to learn a new type of licks because of the diferent position of the intervals. When you look to a major scale, do you figure out the patterns of the pentatonic and then you add the other notes from de major scale?. First moment i tried to learn every scale in every tone for separate, but now i'm using this system (i don't know if it's the correct).

I think that in the end (after several hours of practicing) it won't be a problem and i will see a big scale containing the pentatonic and the major, but now i would to know if i'm doing right!!

thanks

[VikingBlues]

Well, i write my first post talking about major scale. The first scale I learned was the pentatonic, in first position (tipical) and them i moved around the neck and i learned all the fretboard, i added some sweet notes, and other notes. So, with the pentatonic i haven't got any problem. But with the major scale, i don't know why, but i don't get confortably. I learned major C in all the fretboard, but i can't figure out good phrases and riff's, i don't know why. Someone can help me with it?

thanks a lot!!!

I don't think I can help as I suck at theory!

I sympathise with anyone struggling withthe major scale. I can with some effort and revision play in the major scale using the basic box patterns for the major scale, but more often then not I just transpose the minor scale boxes down three frets and play using that and let my ears guide me to note choices.

Seems lazy, but the minor scale boxes fall naturally in place for my brain, as do the minor mode variations. As I don't do licks as such then the notes being in different positions on the fretboard doesn't seem too much of a problem. The major scales just don't fall naturally for me and they only ever go into short term memory. Not for want of trying I assure you.

[weelie]

A lot of the licks you play using minor pentatonic you can play with the major pentatonic too. For example, In minor pentatonic blues the flat 5 is a passing note, the same note is the b3 in major pentatonic playing, and you often used it in passing (slide or bend up from 2 to major 3). Of course the major pentatonic has the root at a different place, so that you need to learn for sure. Also in minor pentatonic there's maybe more of "inaccurate" bending than in major pentatonic (at least for country playing, where you more often bend exactly to a higher note).

For you, it might be easiest to think of major pentatonic as changing the minor to major 3 and also playing the 6th. This I do by thinking of chords. So if I am playing first major pentatonic box and think of E major chord on top of it, the third is on the G string (the minor penta doesn't have note), the sixth is a fret down from the higher note on B string, 9th is two frets up from the root.

The "problem" with mixolydian or major pentatonic is that you ought to think of the chords more (or the harmony, as they call it). So for each chord you play a different scale, in essence. But I hate that, gets too complicated. Of course you can think of "inner logic" like Mathieu Brandt does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0jXbCF5bs

But let's wait for somebody who really knows this stuff to come and post explanation here...

[cruisemates]

To test out your major pentatonic playing try "Honky Tonk Woman" by the Rolling Stones. It is in the key of G-major, but you basically play what looks to be the e-pentatonic blues scale (G A B D E G A B D E).

Bend the same notes (bend the A up to a B and bend the D up to an E) and you would bend if you were playing in E.

I think you will start to get a feel for it soon enough.

[BluesLicksMaster]

The original post was about the major scale, not the major pentatonic. There is no reason why you can't work on the major scale right now. You don't need to work up to it with the major pentatonic first.

If you are used to just playing pentatonic licks then getting a hold of the major scale in a musical way can be tough, it's true. Here's what I recommend:

1. Learn all 5 standard (CAGED) patterns of the scale one at a time. Work with a metronome. Don't worry about making music yet, start by playing it up, and after a while try to go back down. Go slow and steady, don't concern yourself with speed. At this point you are trying to teach your fingers to do it automatically. You can work on speed later.

(here is a good explanation of CAGED Guitar: http://100blueslicks.com/caged-guitar-u ... fretboard/ (Yes, it is my site and I am shamelessly promoting it. But the purpose is to help struggling guitar players).

2. Choose one pattern and try to play a some simple melodies. I suggest Happy birthday to start. Happy Birthday starts on the 5, that would be sol if you were singing do re mi. Over time do the same thing with the other patterns.

3. One of the best things you can do to get a grip on improvising with a scale is to sing what you play. Start with 2 note...ONLY 2! Sing them as you play them. Once this becomes comfortable add another note. Then another and so on. This is a very powerful technique to learn to play musically. After 35 years of playing I still sing what I play every time I play a solo.

4. Get a hold of some some simple sheet music, any beginner to advanced beginner guitar method will do (assuming you are not a great reader, as most guitarists are not). Take a little time everyday to work the music out. Most of the songs will be in the major scale. Studying written music is extremely effective in learning these things. It may be a pain in the butt at first, and it takes dedication and, but the rewards are way worth it.

Most of all, keep at it. Becoming a good musician is a journey that never ends (corny, but true!).

[Dragon88]

well, yes, you all are right...on this never ending story of how to learn playing the blues.
For sure, the method of Blueslicksmaster will be successfull, I join you, and if I have learned one thing in this area: Whatever method you would choose - you have to practice and to practice and going from the simple to the more complex and from the slow to the more original speeds...there is no other way unless you are a "wunderkind".

But now back to the scales: For some years, silly enough, I tried to learn playing by purchasing more and more books. Yes, you may lough. Many of them told me to play/practice lydian scales over this chord, dorian over this etc., of course each of those at various positions neck up and down plus for every thinkable key...I was very impressed about the skills of the teacher(s) and the book(s) disappeared deep down in some boxes.

But now, I am playing - as a beginner though - but I am playing solos. This is because I can stick to the minor scale always! Even in major key songs! The trick is: Just start your minor scale on the 5th of the key note! Example: The song stands in the key of Bb, play your solo in F minor then. Just check it out.

Of course time will ask for more and more skills, but this seems to be one possible very easy way to get startet in both major songs or in minor keys

[redrooster]

Well, a lot of thanks to all of you, it's been a long time since last time I posted here, but i've been practicing, carefully, all the things that you said me. Here are my conclusions:

Weelie: with your explanation I realized that there are more matches than I thought at the beginning. In this last months I tried to work a lot what you said to me and I think that I've taken the essence!

Cruisemates: For sure the song that you said me was the first that I tried to play! At the beginning i didn't feel as good as with a minor song, but then I began to put on practice your bend stuff and that was another thing!

BluesLicksMaster: I did all of your points but number three was (and is) a tricky one! I promise I will get serious about it. And what you said about learn with sheet music, this September I entered in RockSchool (here in Spain there are a few schools that run with this U.K. school) and everyday I try read a little because my guitar teacher said the same as you.

Dragon88: These days i've been taking a look at what you said, but I don't know why it doesn't sounds me 100% right, I don't know why...but I will continue practicing this!

Once again, a lot of thanks!

[BluesLicksMaster]

It sounds like you are on the right track...just don't give up!

Regarding Dragon88's point: You have to understand that it is the harmony (the chords that is) that determines what mode you are actually playing. All the modes of the major scale are actually the major scale. The difference is the tonal center, or home base as I like to think of it. For example, the C major scale (C Ionian) and the the A minor scale (A Aeolian) are the exact same notes. Whether you choose to see it as the C major or A minor scale is probably a function of how you see it on the fretboard.

But the same notes will have a different relationship to the different chord. The tensions will be different, they will resolve differently etc. Over an A minor the A note will feel like home base, and over the C major chord the C note will feel like home base.

You can experiment with this yourself: Choose 1 pattern of the c major scale, it doesn't matter which one. Improvise over a c major chord for a while (make a practice track, or have a friend play the chord). Then switch to an A minor chord, but improvise with the same scale pattern. You'll see that the feeling will change, and you will naturally play them differntly, your ear will guide you, even though you are playing the same notes.

Technically, over the C major chord you will be playing the C Ionian mode, while over the A minor chord you will be playing the A Aeolian mode.

Dragon88 suggested playing the f minor scale over a Bb major. I suspect that he does this in a blues setting, because that will work over a Bb7, but not a BbMaj7. The F dorian scale contains the same notes as the Bb mixolydian scale.

I hope this helps clear that up for you. Feel free to shoot me a message with yor email and I can send you some good pdf files that can help you understand this stuff. Modes can be confusing at first, but once you get the system in your brain it all starts to make a lot of sense.

[cruisemates]

Part of the trick to playing a major scale is having a song that CALLS for it. The major scale is actually very rare in rock, even (let alone blues). The best example I can think of pop songs that use it are "And your Bird Can Sing" by the Beatles and some of Christopher Cross light rock hits of the 80s.

Dragon88 had a really good idea when he said "play the blues pentatonic on the fifth of the scale"

The Major scale is just like the mixolydian scale except the seventh note of the scale is not flatted. If you practice the mixolidian (as most of us who play blues do) then a major scale should not be that hard for you. If you play the mixolydian on the fifth notes of the key you want (say G-mixlydian for a C-Major song) then you should be play a C-major scale.