Chordz n' scalez..

[elborgo]

I'm currently in the works of figuring out some theory...

I'm trying to figure out what scales fit with the progression of Gmaj7 - Amin9 (a I-minII progression)
With G minor pent, i feel that the 9th from the II-chord doesnt fit... Why is that?...
Is a major scale more fitting?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

[Blackhorse]

Hi Elborgo,

from my (very limited!) theory knowledge, I would use a G major scale (or G maj pent) over any Gmaj7 - Am progression, the ninth note shouldn't cause a problem. Personally I only use the blues trick of "min pent over a major progression" on standard blues progressions.
But I'm really not a "theory guy"!

[tytlblues]

Hello,
I will try to help, this progression would be A Dorian. The A minor scales relative major scale is C. There are no flats or sharps in A min/C Maj. So, over the A min chord, an A min scale, A min Pent scale, or A Dorian scale would be appropriate. Over the G Maj7, you would normally use the G Maj scale, which would have only one flat/sharp.....an F# in it. The A Dorian scale is nothing more than the notes of the G Maj scale being played from A to A.

When you try to play the G min pent scale (G min =G, B flat, D), the B flat in the G minor scale sounds bad against the Gmaj7 and A Min, since those chords/scales have a B natural in them.

Play this jam using a G Maj pent scale, mixed with the A min, A blues pent scale, it should sound good.




As a matter of fact, here is a simple Gma7-Amin vamp I had recorded sometime back, but never posted.

download/file.php?id=1326

[VikingBlues]

FWIW - I'll go along with the A Dorian or G Major or more specifically G Ionian(the note positions of which I used to remember as if they were E Aeolian). I had to list out all the notes of those two chords and then draw them on a dummy fretboard to reach any conclusion on this question though - shows how little theory works at any instinctive level for me.

Having said that whatever works for you is right.

[elborgo]

Thanks so much guys, really helpful stuff
I love that I can post a theory question here, and get such a quick and good response
Also, by using the scale generator I can see that A dorian is the same notes as Gmaj.

I will try to take another swing at the progression and see if I can come up with something new, especially with implementing the Amin scales...

Nice playing tytlblues, will try to steal some of your lines

In regards to the Dorian scale... How did you guys learn this stuff?... How do you instantly know that A dorianb fits over Gmaj? ...

[tytlblues]

Thanks, by doing what you just did....looked up the scale. You just taught yourself that A dorian is essentially a G Maj scale. Now you have that in your bag of tricks!

An easy way to find the dorian is: For any min chord, the dorian is the Major scale down 1 step. Ie...... Amin, A dorian = G major, D min, D dorian = C major, so and so ......




tytlblues

[VikingBlues]

How did you guys learn this stuff?... How do you instantly know that A dorianb fits over Gmaj? ...

I wish I could 'instantly know'.

I'm afraid I have to take the notes of the chords I'm using, chart them out on a blank fretboard and recognise from their pattern what scale(s) / mode(s) should work.

If you listen long enough and well enough to modes I believe that you start to recognise the essential character of each - easier with some (eg Phrygian) than others.

I only have got to the stage of being able to recognise the patterns I draw on the blank fretboard after the light dawned from a series of David Wallimann videos that if you know the patterns for the minor and major pentatonic then knowing the modes is only a small further step as you already know most of the notes. If you know the minor pentatonic then you only have to remember which are the additional two notes or what the pattern of those two notes are for each of Dorian, Aeolian and Phrygian. And then for the major pentatonic the additional two notes for Lydian, Mixolydian and Ionian. It's made even easier by the Dorian and Lydian having the same pattern (with the Lydian three frets further down the fretboard), the Phrygian and Mixolydian having the same pattern (with the Mixolydian three frets further down the fretboard), and Aeolian (minor) and Ionian (major) having the same pattern (with the Ionian three frets further down the fretboard).

You can see the way these patterns work on the attached link - at the bottom of the page just clicking on any of the scales / modes shows all the notes on the fretboard. I seem to learn guitar best by these visual aids and shapes and patterns - other presentations of the theory just leave me baffled.
http://visualguitar.com/index.php

Sorry - probably didn't explain this well - difficult to explain something visual with written words.

[12bar]

In regards to the Dorian scale... How did you guys learn this stuff?... How do you instantly know that A dorianb fits over Gmaj? ...

Once you know the principle behind modes it's not too hard. In fact, all modes are generated very simple by just going an octave through the major scale by starting on each note of the scale. Same with the standard chords, combine at least three notes from a scale and you have a chord. As long as all notes belong to that scale, it's save. You can take a look at the basics and chords section above it you want more theory

BUT - I also use a chart so find it out, it's handy and keeping 8 notes in mind while trying to fit three more is too much for my old brain.

[tytlblues]

And I have to add, recording yourself playing, and then listing to it I think helps immensely. It really allows you to hear your playing as other people would.
Find a simple C Maj BT, and whatever key you are comfortable with, then play through the different modes and see how they sound. Better yet, if you have a looper, or simply record a vamp of one major chord, then start playing the modes over that chord. You will learn to recognized the modal sound very quickly!

[12bar]

A short analysis:

Gmaj7: G, B, D, F# (G plus maj7) or I, III, V, VII
Amin9: A, C, E, G, B or I, bIII, V, bVII, IX

Combining all notes results in: G, A, B, C, D, E, F# - which is nothing else than the G major scale, also called the G Ionian scale (better: mode). This scale is save to improvise over for both chords.

Die A dorian scale contains the same notes, but the root note is different. It is generated by starting a major scale on the second note (A) of the G major scale.

In opposite to Gmaj7 does G7 not belong to the G major scale. To complete the confusion, in Blues this doesn't matter. But that's another story.