I think most of us don't mind answering "goofy" questions, assuming that we know the answer.
A possible drawback to he beginners section, the players who have been doing it for a while and might be best able to answer a question might not browse the beginners forum.

Even if some discussions end up very theoretical or technical and may look as "for experienced players only":

THIS IS A BEGINNERS FORUM

There are many many forums in the net for the pros or semi-pros, where discussions often end up with a sort of "religious wars" about special topics - not only Gibson vs Fender but also about scales, modes and chords

This is a place for those who either start with playing or play at intermediate level, mainly just because it's a pleasure to play the Blues. Pros are welcome as long as they are polite - sure they have often great tips for us.

If you have a question - just ask. There are no stupid questions. If there's a question which should be answered in the tutorial - no problem. If there is something which should be explained better, let me know. The tutorial may need some improvements. Tell me where...

weelie wrote:

Basically, in the end, there should be emotion and melody, in solo. So to me the first thing is to play the melody of the song

You may be, as you described yourself, very much a beginner, but you've hit on a fundamental truth there that some of us took far too many years to grasp!

weelie wrote:

Anyway, just my two cents

What you've said in that post is damn good value for two cents.

The best investment I made in helping me improvise guitar was an Intervalic Recognition CD - at a less than painful £10. In doing the excercises in trying to recognise the intervals / spaces between notes I started to listen to notes properly and with gradually increasing success found I knew what the note I was going to play on the guitar sounded like before playing it. When you think how easy it is to sing something that sounds OK over a backing track its a great creative release to find you can start to do that with the guitar. This was a skill I did not get from the many books I tried to learn from. If its of any interest there's a link to the website I got the CD from below.
http://www.monkeylord.co.uk/store/inter … -bisgrove/

It seems that most of the sentiment is that a “Beginners” segment is not necessary.  Strangely enough I AGREE!  The real advantage of a forum is to glean knowledge from those who are more advanced than yourself…  right?  As 12Bar so apply stated: “THIS IS A BEGINNERS FORUM”.  It’s all a matter of perspective.

One very nice feature of this web site (it has many) is the “Latest posts:” in the top right.  That is the first place I go each day to see what is new.  I would think that most others take this route also.  Because of that, I doubt that any posts in any category would be ignored for very long.

I guess, my original proposal was not very well thought out nor well stated.  What I believe would be helpful is a category in the Forum index for questions from inexperienced players, such as myself, with answers from experienced players.  As such a category grew it would be an invaluable resource for less experienced players.

In one of my very first posts I started out with:

I am sorry if this question has been asked before, I searched through the forum but... 14 pages of links, thousands of posts.

If there had been a category in the index of “Basic Questions”, “Learners Topics”, “Beginners”, or some such topic, I would have certainly searched there first.  I am sure that that there are many jewels of valuable information buried in this vast tome of information.

wildwood wrote:

I am a member of an acoustic guitar forum that has a beginners section. And just as Blind Boy says, nobody goes there.

I would hate to have an isolated segment where only beginners hung out.  That would not be very beneficial at all.  I see the Forum Home as a repository of information and the index just as a descriptor of what type of information is in each area.  A segment for Basic Playing Questions (not Beginners Only) would make it easier for members to find information.

wildwood wrote:

The more experienced players, like here, are generous about their time and always very willing to give their advice and answer the "goofy" questions without judgment.

That's why I like it here...

You are absolutely right…  that is the reason I like it here too.

All that said, I am very pleased with this site and plan to hang around as long as you folks will put up with me.  I am OK with the site as it is.  I’ll keep asking my “goofy” questions as long as they pop into my head no matter where they are posted.

Thanks for listening…

Chuck

P.S. 

weelie wrote:

Maybe I should look into Fretboard logic to see if it is special to me, and what's so special about it.

I have limited time now

It sounds like you are on a good track.  If I were in your situation I would not waste money on the Fretboard Logic books.  They are very technical and take quite a bit of reading (over and over) to get through them.  I am retired so I’ve got time to do this.  Besides, I’m the kind of person who has to know how things work.  Maybe you could find a copy in a shop or bookstore somewhere and decide for yourself it would be of benefit to you.

Last edited by Golfxzq (Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:25:33)

Kudos to Viking who said the best thing he spent on  was a ear-training kit. That is really a great help and it IS STILL A GREAT TOOL and one of the most essential for any kind of player. My sight-singing and ear training class is the most difficult i have and i love it. A good website to practice theory and ear training skills is www.teoria.com Check it out.

Music Theory isn`t that complicated, IMO. It`s really not a FOUR-LEGGED MONSTER. Or even reading sheet music. It just takes time and steps to learn which unfortunately most of us don`t have.

As someone who goes to college for music, IMO, at least half of  these theory related questions are solved EASILY if one knows the notes in the fretboard. That`s the start, IMO. Decorating scale patterns, boxes, CAGED system, whatever,  isn`t to me a GOOD way to learn. Trust me, i`ve done that and they get really confusing because you`re learning shapes not what makes the chords or scales. You`re not learning the sound. Knowing the major scales(flats and sharps) first and then how to make chords.  Trust me. Everything is going to start to make sense finally as you apply that to the songs and styles you know. It did for me and it is a wonderful feeling to be able to see that.

Learn the notes and make your OWN patterns. Don`t get stuck to one thing. If you know the notes in the whole neck, a whole world is going to open up to you. The guitar is a great instrument because you can play it many different ways.

For example, i hate in my class that the teacher makes me wanna go through all these scale patterns, makes me wanna play with this or that finger etc. But u know what? I do it just for the class. The minute i`m out, i go back to my own playing, figuring out by myself. I come up with ways to play what he teaches my way, the way it is physically possible to me and something that suits my style. We all have different hands, feelings, minds, etc. Its really stupid in my opinion to make every student play in a robot form, everyone alike, same fingerings, etc because you`re killing individuality and creativity.

The thing is the music that is thought in schools is the western way. Blues really comes from a mix between western AND eastern tradition. Call and response, listening and imitating sounds of nature like trains, etc. Hearing is a big part of making music after all it is a hearing art. Blues is a very new format in the sense the players aren`t good theory wise to explain what they`re doing. Most of them aren`t that good teachers. It`s a shame because if it wasn`t such a illiterate art form, people would probably pay more attention to it in schools and how amazing and complex in fact the style really is. It is NOT SIMPLE to play RIGHT. Columbia College Chicago is the ONLY ONE in the world that has blues as part of its program and is still just a beginning. It makes me pissed when they say that the blues scale is just the pentatonic scale plus the augmented 4th, diminished fifth. This is a great lie. If one uses the ear, listening to all the blues players, especially delta blues, you`ll understand that there are many notes in between, etc. It is people using the notes to imitate sounds of their surroundings(trains, birds, etc). This is part of the eastern way to make music which, imo, hasn't been an area that many people devoted their lives to study. It's this african tradition that has yet to make its way into the books.

The big irony of it all is that blues wouldn't even be discovered, marketed or published if weren't for literate musicians who cared for the music. People like WC Handy who was a trained musician and wrote down into sheet music what he heard and with that, people, record owners, started to pay attention to the music.

Anyways, with all that being said,

Just to add something to what Wellie was saying...

I also think modes are just useless and part of the past. If you get to a point you understand the intervals(relationship between notes), the chord notes, etc, you won`t think about modes. I don`t. EVER.

Do you guys really think I think about mixolydian, dorian or even notes when i`m playing? BIG NO TO THAT! Thinking is for you to leave in the classroom or in the practice time of your house. The minute i step on stage, whatever thinking i`m doing is unconscious. Feeling is 95% of my playing, at least. This is what blues or music is supposed to be, IMO.

Trust me, the audience won`t care if you`re not hitting the right notes while singing or whatever "mistake" you`re doing if you give all you have inside to them. You just have to have the guts. That aura all great musicians have.  If you give them feeling, That`s what they want when they`re on they`re seats. They don`t care about music literacy or whatever crap. They want to be entertained and they want the musicians to play their hearts out. This is contemporary popular music, not classical.

I see so many great players that can go up the scales in a second, or even play this kind of "scholar" blues type that i  hate so much that they forget that what really matters is what you feel inside and dynamics(playing with time, accents, etc) with the band.  To me, you have to somehow shutdown from the whole world and go to that zone where playing is just, i don`t know, unconscious. Time stands still and all you have is yourself and your heart. But of course all of this depends on the people you`re playing with.

Learning is about steps but everyone learns to climb the steps in a different way. And to take way that individuality is to destroy music as an art form.

That`s my view on it.

ps: I know that wasn`t really the topic but i felt like saying all that as today i did one of the best performances of my life so far and it was for like 8 people in the audience. LOL It was kind of funny. We have this performance thing every 2 weeks that is called STUDENT CONCERT SERIES. Its basically an open mic where you can play by yourself or with the teachers who are damn good musicians. (classical, jazz players). If you want the teachers to play with you, you need to bring some sheet music for them.

I had to make a sheet music of Old Love with the whole progression and all. I stayed up the whole night doing that, it was my first  time EVER doing that. I didn`t want to use any existing sheet music because i`m against copying artists note by note.

So, i give them the sheet music, play the progression for a bit, and say "Alright, you know the progression now? GOOD. Ignore the sheet music for the solos. This is the diference between studio and a live performance. Understand that the 4 chords of the verse is supposed to be like a feeling, an Old Love in this case(duh!), that doesn't go away, just a simple cyclic progression to play your hearts out , improvise and jam and then the second part (F, E7, Am, Am+7, Am7, A6 - makes me so angry...) is a response to that,  to build up back to the verses again.  The audience wants to hear the 2nd part so much but you don`t give it to the audience till you reach the height of the solo.  The interplay between those 2 parts is the KEY to the song. It`s all about Dynamics and Feeling really. And that you can`t put into sheet music. "

With that, i put some blues into a performance, tried to explain the feelings. Did my best. Its so funny how people really never saw music that way.

Last edited by Uaala (Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:22:53)

Golfxzq wrote:

weelie wrote:

Maybe I should look into Fretboard logic to see if it is special to me, and what's so special about it.

I have limited time now

It sounds like you are on a good track.  If I were in your situation I would not waste money on the Fretboard Logic books.  They are very technical and take quite a bit of reading (over and over) to get through them.  I am retired so I’ve got time to do this.  Besides, I’m the kind of person who has to know how things work.  Maybe you could find a copy in a shop or bookstore somewhere and decide for yourself it would be of benefit to you.

I think I will look into it. I do enjoy reading on the bus on the way to work. But I don't enjoy reading while I have a guitar in my hands (Meaning the regular tab books I don't want, nor sheet music, really, some method books are OK).

Actually, most of the dozens of books I've read, are from the local libraries. But they don't have that.   

Actually, inspired by this thread, I picked up the jazz theory book I have again, and started reading form the top on the bus this morning... I have read it partly a few times over the years, learn something everytime.... I wonder when I get to really applying some of it.

Last edited by weelie (Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:22:52)