Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

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VikingBlues
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Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by VikingBlues »

I'm in the process of trying to make my recording chain better - so people can really hear my mistakes.

I have a few acoustic guitars - so putting pickups in them all would be rather expensive. Plus I feel the microphone route is the best bet for good sound quality. I have found that researching microphones for acoustic guitars is as complicated as anything I experienced with electric guitar gear.

One thing I have found irksome with microphones on a stand is that if I move around when playing the acoustic guitar it messes up the tones of the recording and I like to move to feel the flow of the music. So I started looking into ways of attaching a microphone to the guitar. Most of the possibilities I found meant using only the microphone that comes with the attachment and most needed a specific additional preamp too.
Eventually I tracked down the ExplorAudio H-Clamp - their Gordon Giltrap Signature version ticked a lot of boxes.
http://exploraudio.com/categories/giltr ... -clamp/24/
It's a temporary attachment - easy to put on and remove. Here is the clamp on the Lowden. It can be used with your own choice of mic.
Image

What the clamp really needs is a good light weight condenser microphone. I only had Large Diaphragm ones which were rather heavy. I researched small diaphragm microphones and found that many experts consider them better for recording acoustic guitars as they are less directionally sensitive and capture the overall guitars sound better. They are also reckoned to pick up better the sharp transients and extended overtones that an acoustic guitar has. I ordered a pair of matched Oktava Mk12 small diaphragm condenser microphones. Which turned out not to be well matched with one recording at significantly higher volume than the other! They were also very bassy when used on the H-Clamp. Returned under 14 day returns policy. Back to the drawing board and more research. :wall:

I'd missed two important things in my research. First - it's best to have a microphone with a bit of a peak in response at high frequencies - the Oktava was a very flat graph for response. Second - the cardioid polar pattern that most microphones have is not considered by some to be best for getting a natural acoustic guitar sound. Mics with a Cardioid polar pattern “hear” best what happens in front of them while rejecting sound from the sides and rear. Cardioid mics will also exhibit proximity effect (increased bass response when the mic is very close to the sound source). However Omnidirectional microphones detect sound equally from all directions and will not exhibit a pronounced proximity effect. They will also be better at capturing in a single microphone situation the overall sound of the acoustic guitar. The Cardioid mic sounds very different pointed at the soundhole v pointed at the join of body and neck.

So with a limited choice (not many small diaphragm mics with omnidirectional pattern) I opted for an Avantone CK-1. China built, USA tested.
Image
Comes with three interchangeable capsules - cardioid, hyper cardioid and OmniDirectional. Plus a nice shock mount for when on a mic stand.

I tested the cardioid capsule v the omnidirectional capsule by recording with them both at the same time to two separate tracks on the DAW. The Omni won hands down every time for me. Much more natural sound and more like the real thing.

As always I like to have a sound file in support of my (many) words.
:music1: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13135041
The Lowden S32 recorded with the Avantone + Omni capsule on the H-Clamp. Which puts the mic about 230mm (9") from the guitar. I have added a very small amount of room reverb in the DAW (sorry HBL). The computer I record on is in a room with a lot of soft furnishings and little in the way of nearby reflective surfaces, so acoustic sound is deadened a bit. With this being a semi-improv piece it was great to be able to walk around while recording it - Happy Days! :cool:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

Ghehe.. sorry HBL... a good thing you couldn't listen in over here. I have been fooling around with the Avion AV3 and the original settings I used for Alone in the crowd, when starting out I didn't notice that the Gmajor was also active with chorus, reverb and delay so all was double since Cybie had the same fx active. think sustain until the end of the day and you know what's going on here. -now cutting the crap-

Very, very tasteful VB ( the RVB to) I checked the sound with and without Loudness active on my Hifi amp ( now using a Onkyo A-8130) and Wow that sound full, no sharp edges. Good weighted sound. sounded very natural to me. You almost got me thinking... :wall: no, no new mic, Hans :naughty:

The H-clamp would drive me crazy. 3 things sticking out from my guitars. The neck and me are standard, but adding a H-clamp would be asking for many bumps into anything around me. ( being a one-eyed bumper)
Seems it works rather good for you. Congrats on this great sounding setup !
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
MichaelRobinson
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by MichaelRobinson »

VB
Whatever you say I did not hear you make some errors that you would like us who listen hear. It does not sound that you walk around while playing. For you walk around, if I understand English correct?

Clever thing you have acquired. Hope you get a lot of benefit from it.
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VikingBlues
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by VikingBlues »

Ooops on the doubled up fx HBL - thank you for the comment on the sound being natural ... just what I wanted to hear above all else. :thumbsup:

Stumbling on this good natural sound while just trying to tackle the problem of getting a microphone that would work close to the guitar is a real bonus! :D

Yes Michael - you understand right about the walking around. I used to walk around / move around when playing electric guitar as it doesn't affect the recorded sound. It feels good to be able to do this with acoustic too.

The change in the recorded sound that can occur just by changing the angle of the guitar to the body is big with an acoustic guitar when using a mic on a stand - this sort of change in tone mid song is not good. I'm pleased that the H-Clamp solves the problem. :cool:

I think the freedom to move helps me get the flow of the music right too - I believe that I can hear that happening in this recording.
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
MichaelRobinson
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by MichaelRobinson »

Yes. I believe you. You have a need to move while playing. How to explain that you know best for yourself but I guess it has with the power of music that flowes through you.
Very cryptic thought of me....or........??
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VikingBlues
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by VikingBlues »

MichaelRobinson wrote:You have a need to move while playing. How to explain that you know best for yourself but I guess it has with the power of music that flowes through you.
Exactly that! :thumbsup:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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HalfBlindLefty
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by HalfBlindLefty »

BTW: Just today I got my son to get into a collab with me for a father and son version of "Alone in the crowd" :dance: :chicken: :banana: :clap:

Michael does'nt realize yet how much of a favour he did me by posting that nice ballad he recorded and uploaded.
A long time ago, in the old forum : Registered: Mon, 27 Nov 2006. Wonder were the other old members all went....
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VikingBlues
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Re: Avantone Microphone + New Guitar Attachment

Post by VikingBlues »

HalfBlindLefty wrote:BTW: Just today I got my son to get into a collab with me for a father and son version of "Alone in the crowd" :dance: :chicken: :banana: :clap:
That should be good - I have often wished my sons had taken an interest in playing an instrument but no luck - they probably decided it was best not to make the same horrible noise as their old Dad! :sad:
An improv a day keeps the demons at bay!
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