NGD - Oh not Again!

[VikingBlues]

Yep - this is what happens when I get disenchanted - I get GAS. Then I go on holiday from work for a week and have all that extra time to browse all those websites selling guitars. Well E-Bay too, but every potential bargain went for a too high non bargain price and none were quite what i was looking for anyway.

I had a Solid Body Single Coil, Solid Body P90 and a Semi acoustic Humbucker. This one is a combination that doesn't duplicate any one of those. Not falling into the same mistake as with the Gibson SG P90 disaster earlier this year. Also this is MUCH cheaper than that little mistake!

Not good enough light for pictures, though it's not really much of a looker. Maybe tomorrow.

Little sound sample meanwhile - a bit of gentle improv on a BT, followed by a demo of the dynamic range with just how hard the pick hits the strings (no movement of volume control knobs) - gets a bit ugly! This guitar can do a bit ugly I think. Then a few test notes on sustain. Line out from the Fender SCXD cranked a bit.

download/file.php?id=2579

Had to dig out the old thick padded bass strap ... at 10 lbs (4.5 kg) it's edged ahead of my 9 lb (4.1 kg) Strat to be the heaviest guitar in the collection.

[Blindboy]

Sounds very nice!
Something Les Paulish, I am guessing?

[12bar]

Solid body + humbucker?
A Paula like BB said? Sounds nice has has potential!

[MichaelRobinson]

Sounds good. No errors at all. I especially like when, I guess, you pluck a string extra hard, then the distortion presented which I think is good.
Now I think I know your ideals for how you want the sound. I guess you normally want it soft but certain songs fit well with distortion.
Sustain and distortionson go well together. Add to echo and you get a vague sound. It's a tip.

Well done............

[vancouverois]

Nice tone!
4.5 kg... A Les Paul type of guitar, perhaps mini humbuckers?

[VikingBlues]

Oops! I didn't say what it was. Not thinking that clearly at present - I have a stinking cold and my head is thick with it.

Just what I wanted in my week off work!

You're all correct in your Les Paul type deductions of course. I guess the weight was a hint at that as well as the sound.

I did say not much of a looker and now you can see that for yourselves:-

Vintage V100 MRPGM Lemon Drop

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Spot the less than convincing relic work:-

Vintage V100 MRPGM Lemon Drop Body

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Humbucker Pickups:-

Vintage V100 MRPGM Lemon Drop Neck Pickup

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Eagle eyed will have noticed the neck pickup is the wrong way round, and yes it's the out of phase wiring set up.
The hardware including the pickups is Trev Wilkinson made. The pickups are his premium make - type of wire, coil size, type and size of magnets etc all from his detailed discussions with Seth Lover, and the covers are solid nickel silver. What I can say for sure is that they have a clarity about them that is not something I've come to expect from modern Humbuckers especially when they're on a huge slab of mahogany like this. A sound much more to my liking than the humbucker pickups on the Vintage SG I had for a while a year or so ago - the neck feels better than that Vintage SG too - it's more of a skinny 60s that fat 50s neck and I prefer that.

So the addition to the stable is solid body with humbuckers is a combination I don't have and the out of phase setting is different too. Back to 4 electrics now - must try and stick to that.

I've considered on quite a few occasions over the last 6 years to get one of these Lemon Drops. I'd hoped one day they'd bring out a non-relic version, but if it's not happened in the 7 years since their release I 've reckoned it's unlikely. I'm afraid the relic job on the back of the guitar is awful and I hesitate to upload a picture. At least the relic work on the front isn't hugely noticeable - just not very realistic when you do notice. There are screw holes for where a scratch plate used to be supposedly fixed and screw holes on the back of the headstock where different style tuners were once supposed to be. A plus from the relic aspect though is that there is not much finishing job on the back of the neck and it's very smooth for running the thumb along.

Things to do on taking it out of the box .... change strings for ones without touches of rust, give the fretboard some conditioner, turn the screws on the bridge about half a turn to raise the action just a tad. Intonation is fine! I then checked the measurements for strings regarding action, Nut, and Neck Relief. All measurements are within the range I have on my Hagstrom, Strat and PRS - which have all had me do some work on them to improve the measurements. I raise my hat to Vintage for this standard of set up out of the box. Pretty good job on fret ends too - only very slight hints of a bit of sharpness anywhere. I haven't yet checked out pickup heights - but they do seem pretty well balanced.

The wiring looks very neat and tidy. Pots labelled JS A500 and JS B500, which at least means 500k pots this time unlike with that last Gibson I had. Also the Vintage is refreshingly free of PCBs in the wiring cavity. Not sure where JS stand in terms of quality, but I suspect lower end - given the overall price I'll not complain anyway.

Whatever, at £275 (325 Euros) I reckon so far that it's astoundingly good value for money.

[vancouverois]

Nice piece of gear, congrats!

I've been tempted by the lemon drop Vintage, also hoping it will come in non relic finish.
Otherwise the Vintage AFD is something I would consider due to its regular finish, though I have to sell a guitar
before.
Some say these are better guitars than their Epiphone counterparts.

It seems JS is an electronics brand, entry level like Alpha pots. A stands for logarithmic and is used for volume
pots, B stands for linear used for tone pots.
In some countries it can be the exact opposite

[12bar]

A Paula , looks and sounds like a winner - congrats!

[VikingBlues]

Not played yet today - I've got a stinking cold and don't feel great - that's 3 of the 4 family members coughing and sneezing.

But just checked out some measurements - seems like the neck angle coming into the body is around the 4 degree angle that Les Pauls had from 1954 till the late 60s. By the time Gibson relocated to Nashville the angle had increased to 5 or even as high as 6 degrees. Just a 1 degree increase in the angle can mean the bridge needs to be 1/4" higher.

This means there is only about 1/16" clearance below the treble height thumbwheel on my Tune-O-Matic bridge.

Vintage V100 Lemon Drop - String angle from bridge

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The big plus is that there is not a steep angle on the strings down from the bridge so I can have the stop bar down on the body with much less danger of the bridge collapsing over time as can happen if the string angle is too steep. I recall my old Tokai Les Paul Custom had a bigger neck angle and I top wrapped the strings so that I could have the stoptail down ion the body.

Just seems like it's been put together well with some attention to detail.

A Paula , looks and sounds like a winner - congrats!

I've been tempted by the lemon drop Vintage, also hoping it will come in non relic finish.
Otherwise the Vintage AFD is something I would consider due to its regular finish, though I have to sell a guitar
before.
Some say these are better guitars than their Epiphone counterparts.

The AFD is much nicer looking than the lemon drop - I had been considering getting something like that or one of the nicer looking basic V100 models and then upgrading pickups to out of phase etc at a later date. Wasn't convinced I'd made a sensible decision till I got my paws on the Lemon Drop. While I don't really like relic jobs it does have two advantages that I hadn't anticipated. One is that the back of the neck (although it doesn't look too good ) is very smooth and makes it feel great to play. The other advantage is I really don't feel nervous about accidentally bashing the guitar.

BTW the neck is thinner 60s rather than fatter 50s which is fine by me.

The Lemon Drop seems to be the only guitar in the Vintage range that has broken through much to the ranks of the professional players including:-
Geoff Whitehorn (Elkie Brooks / Procul Harum)
John Parr
Tom McGuinness (Manfred Mann/Blues Band)
Dave Colwell (Bad Company)
Paul Raymond (UFO)
Bobby Tench (Humble Pie/Jeff Beck Band)
Jim Cregan (Cockney Rebel)
Roy Fulton

... OK not A-List players but it suggests it stands out from the herd a bit.

It seems JS is an electronics brand, entry level like Alpha pots. A stands for logarithmic and is used for volume
pots, B stands for linear used for tone pots.

I would suspect Alpha like. Correct on the A, B with volume and tone. I guess the cost savings have to show up somewhere. At least the electrics are a relatively easy upgrade while a poor body &/or neck would be rather trickier!

One day I hope to be feeling well enough to play the damn guitar!

[HalfBlindLefty]

Lovely guitar with sweet sounds ! She's a looker and a player.
Congrats.

...and I was thinking I was a bad boy when it comes down to gear :)

[VikingBlues]

Lovely guitar with sweet sounds ! She's a looker and a player.
Congrats.

...and I was thinking I was a bad boy when it comes down to gear :)

Thanks - I'm still liking the guitar after 5 days so hopefully that's a good sign!

I used to feel very guilty about these purchases but it's getting worryingly easier.
Then again - I did have 5 electrics for some time. I sold off two to help fund the Gibson SG P90 purchase (or fiasco). The sale proceeds from that Gibson found their way into amp purchases so I've been down at 3 electrics.
I should have this Lemon Drop paid off in about 10 weeks, helped by my savings from continuing to avoid drinking alcohol - one small glass a week is a lot of saving compared to 1/4 bottle a day (replaced with the cost of 1 herbal tea bag and a boiled kettle). I'm in the fortunate position too that my better half suffers from Uke GAS ... so she knows what it's like.

I've managed to stop coughing and sneezing for long enough times the last day or two to do a few plays and recordings trying out the Lemon Drop. Not that my playing is at top notch with the way I'm feeling.

This one shows the more aggressive playing sound that's possible (even with me playing it ). I do like the clarity of notes in a chord even when there is a big chunk of gain. This recording is also unusual in that it has some Bridge pickup on its own and also it uses Voice 3 (heavily cranked Tweed which I've never managed before) on the SCXD. Line out again.
https://app.box.com/s/gdsbbbx7id8gq84i44oj
The backing track is from JamTracksCentral.
I find it difficult to tell if the sound works as I'm not used to this end of the OD spectrum.

This is a guitar that feels right from the moment I pick it up - the playing action and finish means it feels right from then on too. Hopefully the thick padded strap will take care of the 10 lb weight. I've had a fair few Vintage brand guitars (Vintage V100, Vintage v6 SG, Vintage v2 Tele, Vintage VSA590, Vintage Advance AV6) but this one seems to be in a different league - guess the higher price bracket suggested that. I got it for £275 but of the 5 new ones currently on e-bay UK we have £390, £399, £399, £429, and £439.

By some sort of balance to that recording above this is a full more gentle typical VB, although less typically a major scale - neck and both pickups - another JamTrackCentral BT.
https://app.box.com/s/bstryf8k06iee2of9omu

[vancouverois]

Glad to hear you're doing better.

Hard Time has a nice overdriven tone and seems to open doors to a different playing
which is an asset. Your use of sustain and overall playing spectrum say yes to an
overdriven tone.

BTW, I've read these pickups are built accordingly to Seth Lover blueprints and are
based on the PAF, so overdriven tones are even recommended.
How is the neck pickup alone?
Do you get close to the tone that made this guitar famous?

Ain't no love is your signature sound but once again the clarity/sustain makes a difference and
enhances something. Clean Humbuckers vs clean P90, quite often the P90 are raw and may be a
little less defined when played clean.

[MichaelRobinson]

Mark

I like the first version best because it is more distortion than the other. A little more "aggressive", so to speak.

[VikingBlues]

Thanks Michael & Chris - it helps to get confirmation from somewhere that I wasn't deluding myself about the driven sound being OK. I enjoy playing with that sound - but I find it very difficult to enjoy hearing it on playback.

BTW, I've read these pickups are built accordingly to Seth Lover blueprints and are
based on the PAF, so overdriven tones are even recommended.
How is the neck pickup alone?

Trev Wilkinson says that he had a long talk with Seth Lover which involved him getting the details of the original humbucker specifications. Seth Lover fancied the idea of someone trying to make an equivalent to a PAF humbucker for regular production guitars at a sensible price. So all the detail about the wire, the magnet type and size, the coil size etc were passed on. The addition of solid nickel silver covers is a bonus - don't think you normally see that until pickups are around twice the price level. I've never seen Trev Wilkinson make extravagent claims on the other Vintage guitars he's been involved with on the design front, but with this one he said he thought it compared favourably in playability feel and sound to anything put out of Nashville by Gibson - from what I've experienced so far I'll not argue against that claim.

The neck pickup alone works very nicely - I've been using that as much as the middle position in my playing around with backing tracks. Soundwise the tone of the neck pickup compares well with any of my other guitars, even the Duncan/Lover SH55 humbuckers in my Hagstrom (a much more expensive product). The neck pickup has a good deal of presence to it but a good clarity and refreshing absence of mud. The sound has more in common with the sort of Kossoff or Duane Allman tones from a Les Paul - more articulate - than the huge express train sound from the later Les Paul pickups in the 70s and 80s. I'll try and get to record higher gain with the neck pickup before too long. I was just so taken with the novelty of getting a Bridge pickup with a sound that I liked I forgot about the neck pickup. I was also shocked to find I could get a usable sound from voice 3 on teh Super Champ XD - never happened before.

Do you get close to the tone that made this guitar famous?

I haven't tried! That may sound odd given how much I like PG. But I like hearing him - I hate hearing me trying to sound (and failing to sound) like him. I have yet to explore the possibilities of tone from the out of phase middle position. I have already noticed there are BIG changes with just small adjustments to the volume of each pickup - both on 10 is VERY different to one on 8 and the other on 10 for example. There are also tricks to learn with the where the tone controls are set! Now - I know it CAN be done as I see plenty of YouTube videos that show it's possible. So far I'm happy I'm just getting a different sort of sound to the standard middle position.

[HalfBlindLefty]

Actully I do like both, each for it's own reason.
The distortion you've set in hard time makes your guitar blend in with the track beautifully. Beside that you get more adventurous in yourr playing and that works awesome. Love it.

With Ain't no love it's clear you are playing a "new" guitar (soundwise) I agree with Chris about the sustain. It's VB's signature sound but colored beautifully by the guitar.

[VikingBlues]

Actully I do like both, each for it's own reason.

Thank you for taking a listen HBL - I'm very pleased that both recordings work for you. The distortion one because it's new territory, the "smooth" VB trademark one because it means I can also still have the option of using this guitar for my medicinal soothe my mind playing - that sort of melodic style is an area that you play so incredibly well so I value your view on that a lot.

I'm impressed at the extremes that the Lemon Drop seems to adapt to. And pleased that it allows me to extend my experiments into the more driven sounds, and to be OK on that overdriven sound while still using my fingers instead of a pick (which I've had to resort to in most of my previous attempts).

I'm feeling it's all a bit dreamlike so far (maybe just the lack of decent sleep ) - and I hope I don't wake up from the dream and find reality is much less good. I do feel a lot of this positive feeling I have about the guitar is down to the pickups - I really do not like the thicker sounding muddy humbuckers that seem to inhabit so many guitars. It does remind me though that I probably should have tried changing the pickups in my MIJ Tokai Les Paul Custom when I fell out of love with it rather than just selling it - but I knew so much less about guitars and upgrades back then.

Wish I could play more guitar just now - but this stinking cold has just sapped so much of my physical and mental energy.

Beside that you get more adventurous in your playing and that works awesome.

This type of playing does give me more freedom which is quite fun. An opportunity to be much less particular about which notes to hit and how to hit them - and to be able to hit them from all angles too with all parts of the hand / fingers. Gives an extended range of sounds and harmonies (or dis-harmonies).

[VikingBlues]

How is the neck pickup alone?

Neck pickup alone - mini improv on a GuitarVoice.com BT. Might be just a short one and only 3 takes but I was sweating at the end. Damn this stinking cold!

https://soundcloud.com/vikingblues/ball ... lemon-drop

Tweed voicing again but less heavily driven. The guitar seems quite amenable to dialling in a matching voice for a BT.

[vancouverois]

Sounds great with a lot of clarity!
The lemon drop is really impressive and the pickups seem very well designed, congrats!

[VikingBlues]

I've considered on quite a few occasions over the last 6 years to get one of these Lemon Drops. I'd hoped one day they'd bring out a non-relic version, but if it's not happened in the 7 years since their release I 've reckoned it's unlikely.

Well there's a funny thing (and well spotted by Chris)!

In the few short days since the purchase what now shows up on the JHS / Vintage website? Yes - in the Re-Issued series there is now a non-distressed version of the lemon drop. Not in the shops yet and its £10 lower RRP suggests just how much hard work doesn't go into the relic work!

Fortunately I'm OK with the relic version, having actually bought it. Nice to know it doesn't matter if I ding it and I like the feel of the back of the neck without the usual vast swaths of poly finish.

But so long since launch and so soon after my purchase - the timing of this is ridiculous!